Mission Engineering Gemini 2 Volume vs Friedman ASM-12

  • I seemed to have missed this thread until lured with the promise of a share in Ash's beer stash.


    I have the Gemini 1-P with a PowerHead and it's loud enough for me (and I stand right next to the drummer). I'm sure the powered Gemini's give you more volume and oomph (and the power amp in them is superior). I really wanted to get the Gemini 2-P but A) didn't want to get another power amp for a powered Kemper (whose speaker out is only mono) to utilize the stereo function, and B) the weight. Migrating from the Friedman this may not be a big deal to you since both are heavy. If the Gemini 2 stayed stationary, it would be a no brainer. Having to move it around I went with the 1-P, which is still 50lbs.


    Anyway, I fully endorse the Mission Gemini. The coaxial design gives you even dispersion that plays and responds very much like a traditional cab while being FRFR. The speakers do need you to really drive them to sound good, so quiet bedroom playing isn't its forte. Sounds like your issue is with not getting high enough volume (and don't be fooled, wattage doesn't equal volume). I'd think driving a Gemini would give you a similar visceral experience as standing in front of a humming traditional 2x12 or 4x12.

  • Anyone who have experienced that volumes linked to the master control don't properly maintain their relation which for example may result in loss of monitor output volume may find improvement with the latest firmware (5.2.0.12879):


    "fixed: output volumes linked to Master Volume maintaining their volume relations reliably"

  • FYI, I do have all the internal output settings done correctly as suggested in this thread. I am very happy with the Sound of the ASM-12, but am still, after all this time, underwhealmed by the low volume the unit puts out. No way this things handles itself in a band rehearsal. I will sell it soon and buy the Gemini II with the hopes that the volume will be where it needs to be, plus the advantage of running stereo, with all the great effects we have now in the Kemper. I'm also looking to add an Eventide H9 Max, but I've got another thread about that before I pull the trigger on it, as I'm concerned about the ability to run it in stereo throughout the entire effects chain, which based on what I've read, is not likely possible, unless it is always the first effect in the chain, which is not always ideal.

  • Ill swear by the Gem II studio or non studio version as being loud enough, its 2 x 110W stereo!
    Thats a shame about the Friedman man, are you going to get the Bluetooth version??


    Ash

    Have a beer and don't sneer. -CJ. Two non powered Kempers -Two mission stereo FRFR Cabs - Ditto X4 -TC electronic Mimiq.

  • FYI, I do have all the internal output settings done correctly as suggested in this thread. I am very happy with the Sound of the ASM-12, but am still, after all this time, underwhealmed by the low volume the unit puts out. No way this things handles itself in a band rehearsal. I will sell it soon and buy the Gemini II with the hopes that the volume will be where it needs to be.

    I suspect you may be disappointed by the Gemini II too. The ASM-12 is rated at 270+80W (LF+HF) RMS which are values 5W above the Dynacord AXM 12A I am a happy user of. Your practise/stage-volume must be painful. The Gemini II is rated at 2x110W. The spec doesn't say whether this is peak or RMS values, but I think it is unlikely to meet your expectations if the rated output of the ASM-12 in comparison is trustworthy. If you really need to be that loud, then look at somthing like a Yamaha DSR112 (1300W peak, 800W RMS). I use DSRs for PA and have used a pair of DSR112s a bit with my Kemper. It is a glorious speaker at both moderate and high volumes, but IMHO complete overkill as a monitor for the Kemper.

    Edited 2 times, last by heldal ().

  • I'm convince there is something tied to the wattage rating of how Friedman determines the output of the unit. I do find it strange considering the history of the company. I also believe it's probably tied to having an issue with their input clipping too soon, not allowing the power amps to reach their potential.


    As a simple comparison, I use presonus scepter eight studio monitors which are powered at 90 W each.


    My studio monitors drown out the ASM 12. This happens before even coming anywhere near close to pushing the maximum volume of my studio monitors.


    I even did a video that I sent to David Friedman trying to diagnose the problem, reading DB levels comparing my studio monitors to the ASM 12 clearly demonstrating that the Friedman was not even coming close to maxing out what the studio monitors could put out on theDB measurements. He had me send the unit back, but ended up returning it back to me with zero feedback, which I was also surprised about.


    So based on comparing watt output from one manufacture to the another (ASM-12 to Gemini), in this example is not an apples to apples comparison.


    I've been playing guitar for 35 years, I've owned too many to count high end tube guitar amplifiers. If I were to compare the volume output of the Friedman ASM 12, it probably compares closest to my top hat club deluxe which is a 20 W guitar amplifier.


    My Suhr badger 35, completely drowned out the ASM 12. And it's a 35 W power amp. Now I realize were comparing to tube power to solid-state power so that is not an apples to apples comparison, I only mentioned these, to give you an idea of just regular practice Output volume.


    For me, a typical 50 watt tube amp has always been sufficient for band rehearsal. I would expect any of these powered speakers to compete with a 50 watt tube amp, considering that 5 is where the master volume usually sits for me on most 50 watt tube amps when practicing.

  • Check the specs here, there is NO WAY its not loud enough, check the PEAK wattage in this video
    Dude i own one, its LOUD.

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    Ill bet both my nuts.




    Ash

    Have a beer and don't sneer. -CJ. Two non powered Kempers -Two mission stereo FRFR Cabs - Ditto X4 -TC electronic Mimiq.


  • Sorry, as I mentioned earlier, there is something drastically wrong with this picture. There is no way the ASM12 will be lower volume than a pair of studio monitors rated at 90W or a 20W guitar amplifier. Not even possible. There is something else going on here.

  • I'm not referring to the Gemini's volume, I've never even used one, I'm talking about the ASM-12.

  • Maybe something is off, but this isn't the first complaint I've heard about the ASM-12's volume, which is worth noting.

  • I think that's fair, that being said, there are not very many ASM-12's out there, its not one of the more popular ones. I've been convinced something has been wrong with mine since day one, just can't get Friedman to agree with me.

  • sure no prob I posted the vid because some one said they doubt the Gemini would be loud enough :)


    Yeah there has to be some thing wrong there I can't believe Friedman would blow you off like that man


    Ash

    Have a beer and don't sneer. -CJ. Two non powered Kempers -Two mission stereo FRFR Cabs - Ditto X4 -TC electronic Mimiq.

  • So i just did another test. I pulled up a Protools Session. I panned everything to the left and then measured the DB output from a distance of 12" from the center of the speaker and got 104db.


    I then panned everything to the right, discounted the XLR Feeding my right studio monitor and connected it to the input of the ASM-12, and I got 106db. The red clipping light was coming on constantly on the ASM-12 meaning it was at maximum volume.


    Worth noting, I could easily increased the volume more to the Presonus Sceptere 8 Studio Monitor which is rated at 90 watts, and got another 10 db before overloading that speaker.


    Its pathetic that the ASM-12 that is rated at 700 watts cannot over power by a very high margin, a studio monitor rated at 90 watts. At a complete loss.......

  • I would make a video and then show it to Friedman and say if you cant explain and acknowledge this, ill post this on pootube..Sorry Youtube been reading too much of Nicky's posts :D


    Ash

    Have a beer and don't sneer. -CJ. Two non powered Kempers -Two mission stereo FRFR Cabs - Ditto X4 -TC electronic Mimiq.

  • Please kKeep us in the loop, Barry, as I was considering the Friedman for my use as well. Now, I may not want to do that anymore.


    Red Sound, Mission, Blue Amps, Friedman... tough choices!!