Mission Engineering Gemini 2 Volume vs Friedman ASM-12

  • I posted about my frustration with the volume level of the friedman ASM – 12 a few times. At this point I'm seriously considering the mission engineering Gemini 2, but I really want to hear users feedback regarding the volume level of the cabinet.


    Some history of my experience with the Friedman ASM – 12. Overall I think the cabinet sounds really good, I also think the cabinet looks really great. I like the fact that you can use it in the wedge mode, as well as the traditional up right position.


    The only structural issue I have with it, which is widely discussed, is the idiotic placement of the carrying handle. I honestly think Dave Friedman was smoking some insane pot the day he came up with that idea, it truly is idiotic on all levels.


    My number one issue with the ASM – 12, is it's grossly under whelming volume level. I've actually gone through the process of contacting Dave Friedman, sending him multiple videos with my DB level meter, demonstrating the lower level output of the unit. At his request, I shiped the unit back to him, where he had it checked out, and he shipped it back to me basically implying to me there's nothing wrong with it. As there was Zero explanation, no I am sorry you're not happy with it, but it is what it is, no we checked it out, and it appears to be working properly, I got absolutely nothing. All I got was a box with the speaker cabinet in it delivered back to my house. I left multiple messages, all of which went and returned for over two weeks. Finally somebody who works for the distribution company told me, well of course it's working properly, why else would we have shipped it back to you? It was a really strange experience. I'll just leave that right where it is.


    There is no way in the world you could play with just the ASM 12, with a live drummer. It's simply cannot produce enough volume to be able to even handle light practice. My badger 35, which is a 35 W amp head, completely drowns the ASM 12 out. My presonus scepter eight studio monitors, that are rated at 90 watts each, also will overpower the ASM 12. If I were comparing this to a typical tube amp, I would say the ASM 12 is the equivalent of a 20 Watts tube amp. The power amp inside the cabinet also easily clips, which completely makes it unable to run it at Max volume. Just in case you're curious, yes I did confirm all of the correct connections were made, verified cables, went through all the expected troubleshooting of all of that, actually had the exact same experience with both my Kemper as well as a fractal AX8.


    So I get it, why am I spending so much time talking about the ASM 12, when my question is really about the mission engineering Gemini 2?


    Well, I wanted to be able to give a clear example of my experience, as well as paint a picture of what I'm hoping to achieve. Considering I am happy with the sound of the ASM 12, I definitely don't want to go through the process of selling it, then end up buying the Gemini 2, then end up realizing I have the same problem.


    So that being said, those of you who have experience with the Gemini 2, can you please elaborate on the volume of the cabinet compared to a traditional tube amp head. If you happen to have experience with the ASM12, and the Gemini 2, then please give me your opinions on both of those, from both a quality of sound perspective, as well as the volume perspective.


    Obviously the Gemini 2 is compelling because it's a stereo cabinet, which hopefully, we'll get a good stereo image, and a solid stereo representation of the Kemper. Please, please, speak to that aspect of it as well.

  • Hi guys, my Gemini 2 is on the lowest volume level and is still LOUD, but in saying that some thing smells like its up like nightlight said.
    The Friedman has enough power to cut through the drums from the specs. 500 watt of total power see in their official video


    (spec there)


    What blows me out is this statement


    My badger 35, which is a 35 W amp head, completely drowns the ASM 12 out. My presonus scepter eight studio monitors, that are rated at 90 watts each, also will overpower the ASM 12.

    Dood if 500w of total power available is really there, for a monitor that should be all you need.


    If 500 Watts of max power is not there then there HAS to be some thing up, doubt its the kemper but need to check settings
    Then need to compare it with another Friedman.


    The Mission has the power to cut through the drums, look at the specs, i know its LOUD Bra.
    BUT so should the Friedman. What a bastard of a scenario. There are only a few things that make my head hurt and this is one of them (this time its not the beer either)


    If there any way you can find an identical Friedman? You can nail it right there.
    If you plug in a second one and is louder thats the fastest way i can think of to show Friedman need to pay closer attention to what your saying/


    Man 500 watts not enough power. (yeah and my ass is not fat)
    Dont buy a mission brother until you can compare the 2 IMHO.


    Ash

    Have a beer and don't sneer. -CJ. Two non powered Kempers -Two mission stereo FRFR Cabs - Ditto X4 -TC electronic Mimiq.

  • I get it, that's what is so confusing about all of this. Remember, I sent it back to Friedman for evaluation.


    I have gone through every troubleshooting process of elimination known to man. The issue is consistent regardless of what is connected to it. Kemper, Fractal AX8, CD Player output. All the same. It can get loud to a degree, just nothing close to band volume.


    Remember we are takin. 500 watts of solid state power which can't be accurately compared to tube power.


    At a true 500 watts, I would expect that at full volume, it would be hard to stay in the same room for extended playing time.

  • Yep, i wonder what Friedman did in their tests to give it the all clear.
    Can you find a second Friedman to compare?
    I cant see any other way of catching them out


    Man you should not have to go through this shite!


    Ash

    Have a beer and don't sneer. -CJ. Two non powered Kempers -Two mission stereo FRFR Cabs - Ditto X4 -TC electronic Mimiq.

  • I considered ordering another one just to try it out and then rerun it, but could do it in the end and keep a good conscience.


    Not right ordering something you know you have zero chance of keeping it.


    I'm not aware of anyone around me that stocks the ASM-12.

  • Even tho i have never played a Friedman i have played the Mission.
    Just saying, if worse comes to worse, i highly doubt you will think the Mission wont sound as well as the Friedman
    Check the specs on the mission it delivers.


    If you ever crack the shits (i would not have lasted that long)
    and decide on the mission instead..i promise you wont regret it bro


    I just turned the level up on my mission cab, i nearly got a noise complaint lol


    Ash

    Have a beer and don't sneer. -CJ. Two non powered Kempers -Two mission stereo FRFR Cabs - Ditto X4 -TC electronic Mimiq.

  • Hi J, Yes my friend!!!! Still playing in Stereo which is KILLER, and i only have one cab but the pin pong effects are loud.., i like it that much i am getting a second cab, the FRFR comes to life with the new delays and effects, stereo is the shit, ill NEVER play a kemper in Mono again man.
    But LOUD?? Shit man, i can only have the level right down unless there is a drummer there ITS WAAY LOUD.Yeah you can switch it to a more cab feel (traditional cab) on the back Bro, BUT , ill bet you never do that , the FRFR power of this is the real deal


    J how is the Friedman man, is the volume level still screwed??
    Beside the quality stereo sound why am loving the mission more than the Friedman?


    1) i can play Bluetooth backing tracks IN STEREO with my Mission cab when playing the kemper
    2) I can hook it up as a stereo speaker via Bluetooth from the lap top and play loud music :thumbsup:


    Dood, there no competition when you play it, its not that heavy, but then again i carry cartons of beer :rolleyes:8o


    Ash

    Have a beer and don't sneer. -CJ. Two non powered Kempers -Two mission stereo FRFR Cabs - Ditto X4 -TC electronic Mimiq.

    Edited once, last by ashtweth ().

  • Hey man, sounds awesome.


    I don't have a Friedman man, that was the OP.


    At the moment I have 2 x DXR10's which are light and powerful but tbh I find them too harsh and unnatural at real volume. Also I just don't get the feel and guitar feedback, even at gain, that I am used to.


    Secondary option I have going is a Rocktron Velocity 300 powering my THD 2x12 - which sounds great, but it's only the one cab sound.


    So the Gemini 2, on paper, looks like the perfect combination. True FRFR but with the feel and push of a cab.
    Did you try out a Gemini 1 also?


    Are you in Australia BTW?

  • The secret to posting IMAGE files on drop box is to change the ending url FROM di=0 TO di=01
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    See that mission cab and CARTON OF AUSSIE BEER (COOPERS 5.6 percent beer there)
    Thats whats for you my friend when you get to OZ .
    I got one saved for @MementoMori (my Nigga) too


    Brah so @Ingolf does not kick my ass, the DXR10's can be useful to working musicians
    The Rocktron does not have a big a sound Brah as the MISSION.


    My brother, let me speak to you please, the drivers in the mission are CRISP
    the speaker are STEREO 2X12 but HAVE FEEDBACK AND A HUGE STEREO SOUND.
    But its coming from one cab god dam it.


    My brother , is there ANY other FRFR stereo cab out there like this? hmmm well
    you have to hear this first, i need to get my ass to @Monkey_Man Nicky's place to record soon
    and give my brother a shout and hug..


    but let me say this (please)
    all jokes aside.


    The mission cab is CRISP, TIGHT AND LOUD..and man why do they lead the market in pedals?
    Not enough people have played the mission cab to know how KILLER its cab sound is too (god dam it)


    okay...I am sad you cannot play this at my house man TO SEE THE POWER..ill drink your beer till you get here Brah
    Did not try the 1X12 Gemini WHY?


    STEREO IS THE KEY..DONT PLAY KEMPER IN MONO GOD DAM IT...Why do that? its a WASTE of ELITE GERMAN engineering :rolleyes:8o=O:D:P


    Love to all K


    Ash

    Have a beer and don't sneer. -CJ. Two non powered Kempers -Two mission stereo FRFR Cabs - Ditto X4 -TC electronic Mimiq.

    Edited 3 times, last by ashtweth ().

  • Yes, but... you can do what Ash said he wants (and is more than welcome and can stay on the cheap) to do...

    i need to get my ass to @Monkey_Man Nicky's place to record soon
    and give my brother a shout and hug..

    ... 'cause you're in miserable ol' Melbourne, like me, Jase!


    No mission cab for you to try, I'm afraid; not necessary for recording anyway. You can have a go at my Opal monitors 'though. Made at the Rode factory up in Sydney, and friggin' awesome.


    No Aussie beer here I'm afraid. It's Lowenbrau all the way here. Sweet, clean German brew. I keep a dozen and a half in the fridge for guests.. who never arrive...


    Cheers brah. Oh, and I've heard nothing but good things about the Mission, so I'm not surprised by Ash's enthusiastic endorsement.

  • Both the Friedman and a Gemini 2 should be powerful enough. Have you checked the volume levels on Output-Page2/6. The level of your output may be reduced way below max there even if the master-volume is on full. I usually connect to monitor-outputs and have experienced reduction of the monitor-volume several times over the time I owned the KPA witout ever consciously tuning it down myself. I do OTOH frequently adjust the main volume to adapt to various mixing-desks and/or recording gear. If you open up Output-Page2/6 you will see how the individual output volumes each react when you turn the master volume knob.


  • Opal monitors and cold Lowenbrau....hmmm there is no downside!

  • Some times I buy the 80 bucks a carton Millet based German organic gluten free beer (from Dan Murpheys)
    But it makes me too horny and I think I am a Rino :D
    German beer is the best in the world kiddies


    :P
    Ash

    Have a beer and don't sneer. -CJ. Two non powered Kempers -Two mission stereo FRFR Cabs - Ditto X4 -TC electronic Mimiq.