How do you profile a noisy amp /pedal ?

  • After 3 months using my KPA, I'm absolutly happy with it's ability to capture my own amps tones.


    The only concern I have, is that sometimes I will use some noisy gear, ie a Boss HM2 for instance, and the KPA will throw an error message while i'm trying to profile it.


    As I've read, it is also not possible to use a noise reductor, such as a Decimator, to clean up the sound.


    Are there tricks that will help me profile these sounds anyway ?


    Thanks in advance

  • HM2 has a weird sound so its hard to capture and too much gain especially a noisey signal will set it off. You could use a noise gate but it does zap the tone so proceed with extreme caution. What I've done to help reduce noise is get better cables.

  • Some amps are really hard to profile in the upper gain ranges. For example, I just profiled an Orange Tiny terror at insane gain levels and had no problems, but a TSL100 has been giving me a lot of problems. As you say, the main problem seems to be the noise that some amps generate at high gain settings.


    With a noisy amp there is actually a pretty definite gain setting for each amp that sends the profiler into panic. Anything before that setting and the profile comes out dynamic and clear, but beyond that it's big mess of compression and the bass is all over the place. A few times i've been warned by the Kemper that it detected a noise gate when there is none!


    Off the top of my head I think these would be possible solutions:


    1. Profile at the limit of gain that gives you an accurate profile and then use the Kemper's gain knob to increase it. Not ideal because it will sound different than the amp.


    2. I'm hoping someone can chime in if they've tried this, but maybe there are some conservative settings for a noise gate that won't confuse the Kemper and still tame enough noise to let it do its magic.


    3. I will try this tomorrow: on the preamp (vintech x73 in my case), a gentle (or not so gentle) roll-off on the lows might alleviate the problem. Ideally, the roll off would be low enough not to affect the tone you are trying to capture.


    If anyone has more wisdom on this it would be greatly appreciated!

  • Reporting back... the bass roll-off idea didn't work. As i suspected, the backgourd noise is at frequencies that are part of the guitar/cab sound. So option n2 won't work. Option 1 (profiling at lower gain and adding on the kemper) doesn't sound very good either...


    But as Mental suggested, extensive refining might work. We are talking EXTENSIVE. Several minutes, with the aid of my looper. Even then, I haven't been able to make a perfect profile. I'll try more refining techniques and see what works...


    As for using a noise gate pedal subtle enough to trick the kemper... if anyone could give that a try, that would be great!

  • And very long refining doesn't seem to solve it either, does it?


    BTW, I should add that the Kemper does not warn me about the amp being too noisy. It takes the profile, but it's all over the place as far as sound and compression go.

  • Ok, I might have a solution. i need to do some more testing but this has taken me from unusable profiles filled with flabby distortion to so accurate that I have to actually look for differences. I've searched the forum high and low and nobody seems to have tried this before so here it is if you want to give it a spin:


    1. Profile the amp at the highest possible gain setting that allows for a dynamic and accurate profile
    2. Record a loop of chords on the remote (or play if you don't have a remote) and then hit refine
    3. As the reigning process is happening, gradually raise the gain of your amp.
    4. Now raise the gain of the Kemper so that it matches the gain on the amp.
    5. Refine again. You might need to refine a few times but eventually you will end up with a profile that sounds the same as your reference amp at a high gain setting.


    The reasoning behind this experiment was that noise would screw up the profile at the lower volumes but shouldn't be a problem when playing at full volume. While the impulses the profiler sends go from soft to loud, amp noise does make an accurate profile impossible to get. But once that is done, my theory is that you can "teach" the profile the new gain setting in the refining process without having to worry about the noise. My first tests are encouraging...

  • generally, the noise to signal ratio of an amp can often be improved with high quality preamp tubes, selected for their low noise levels.
    hth

    I agree. But sometimes I get an amp for a few days or maybe I go to somebody's studio and find an amp i really like and "steal its soul" on the spot. Plus, some amps are just noisy.


    The method above might be a bit convoluted, but I have just saved a profile that is 99% there instead of a mess of compression and mids. So in case anyone wants to try it, please let me know how it goes...

  • How much time do you refine ?

    Not much. 30 seconds or so. The idea is that when you raise the gain on the kemper, it doesn't take into account the subtleties of the gain nor the interaction of the gain with the eq. So you bring the Kemper gain up until it matches the amp, then do a regular refine so that the kemper understands the interaction between gain and eq and dynamics. I always need to give it the usual chords but also some palm muting on the 6th and 5th for it to get the extra oomph of a high gain settings on the amp.


    I'm still perfecting this, but as soon as I have it down to the most efficient and streamlined way I will post the final version...