Guitar cab or FRFR - and why?

If i purchase the unpowered version, ave to use my Peavey6505 plus head as a Poweramp as well because I wouldn't be able to afford a power amp or the powered kemper... would that color sound as well?

that's what I figured however, by that statement does that mean the Kemper really doesn't sound like a tube amp tgat it profiles?

Quote from Metal Greg

that's what I figured however, by that statement does that mean the Kemper really doesn't sound like a tube amp tgat it profiles?

It does sound like a tube amp, but it's up to you how you want to play it.
If you want the "guitar cab speaker in the room sound" then use a guitar cab, try DI profiles, or bypass the kemper cab.
if you want all the different flavors from many different amp profiles then use a full range monitor.
It's the miced guitar cab sound we are used to hearing from records and seeing live bands hearing the PA.
You can see plenty of bands using either or both options when playing live.

I have profiled a lot of amps and the vast majority comes out very close to the point where the small difference doesn't matter at all to me. A few profile results sound identical to me. I have been fooled several times by profiles in abx blind tests (not knowing at all what gear was tested and if a kemper was in the test).
A few times have profiles been more noticeabley different from the source amp. That has been improved with refining the profile or profiling it again to avoid any error that may have occured.

I have never heard a profile being remotely close to the term "light years away" from the source amp.
Perhaps MementoMori and I simply have a completely different choice of words when describing differences.
To me the term "light years away" suggests as far away as possible when using comparison words, meaning it's at the very extreme end of the scale in a comparison test. It sounds to me like something must have gone terribly wrong in the profiling process or malfunctioning gear if that is the profile result.

Just make sure to follow all steps and it shouldn't be any problem making good profiles.

Kemper Amps Profiling Demonstration Live on Air with John Huldt

My Amps Get Profiled | Tim Pierce | Guitar Lesson | Learn To Play

Nashville Profiling Session - Dave Cleveland @ Sunset Blvd Studio - 60s Princeton Amp by Tyler

cool.. I guess part of my dilemma is when I buy it the only way I will be able to use it is hooking it up to the power amp section of my Peavey head and running it through my Mesa cabinet.. until I get the money to buy a power amp and a cabinet that has full range speakers so with that said,, I'm trying to determine whether or not I'll be happy with that or if I want to send the thing back LOL I guess if I'm not happy with it I can just hang on until I get the opportunity to purchase tge other equipment... then i need tge 700 dolkar foit switch lol

Quote from MementoMori

This is an unpopular opinion here and usually ends up being argued by forum members or accusing me of exaggerating the issue.

I have no clue why you bring up past negativity in a thread like this where there is no negativity, and in many other threads like this one.
"here" can't refer to statistics of all thousands of kemper users on the forum.
Let past negativity go.

To me if your going to get a kemper and get an FRFR , it should be a stereo FRFR cab, all the new delays and ping ping effects and MUCH more come alive. Its a waste of a kemper to not get a stereo FRFR IMHO.

Look you play the difference and tell me that i am wrong.

Ash

Quote from MementoMori

I suppose the term is subjective. There are some where the differences are glaring and obvious. Often these are apparent when the Kemper can't do such things accurately (which they readily disclose) like multiple distortion stages, be it from simultaneous pedal + preamp to preamp + power amp distortion. Even with those aside there are often fundamental differences. If they aren't apparent to you or affect your feel, then that's fine. While most here feel profiles are 95%-99% accurate, I'd say most (not all) of my experience even with tests where people claim to not hear a difference is more in the ballpark of 80%. This is an unpopular opinion here and usually ends up being argued by forum members or accusing me of exaggerating the issue. These are also apparent without having profiled an amp which I'm about to do shortly. Perhaps this will lead to me being more satisfied with the tonal differences, or moving on from the KPA.

Indeed, worth trying a direct profile for the "amp in the room" feel with a cab. Will probably help to have the 6505 power amp, too. A number of threads recently have come about after newcomers have realized the powered Kemper and the solid state power amp just doesn't feel or behave the same as they're used to from their traditional heads. Some others have been perfectly happy using it this way too, so it's all a matter of preference or what you're willing live with.
I definitely suggest the FRFR route. I use a Mission Gemini and the coaxial design give it a little more of that "amp in the room" feel where PA speakers are a little too hi-fi and boxy for my tastes. They also allow for you to utilize different cab emulations, which is much of the reason to get a Kemper. I far prefer the sound of the KPA through the Gemini than going direct, though the linear power amp makes many profiles sound fairly stale. Finding profiles with high dynamic response helps.

I agree 100% with Mori… I have had friends tell me that they have profile there amplifier and to come over and hear it and I would say it’s 80%, meanwhile they’re so excited they think it’s bang on, exact! I don’t get it… all of my direct profiles that I have done ( powered KPA) with marshals, Bogner‘s, wizard amplifiers, they have all been about 80%… Nowhere near exact, That immediate attack and smoothness and depth of a tube amplifier is just not there in the direct profile of any that I’ve done… Thru 4x12 cab. ( yes, these are direct profiles and played with the same guitar through the same speaker cabinet exactly… And no, The cab Sim is turned off because it’s a direct profile… LOL ) I would bet anyone $10,000 that I could tell the difference 100% of the time in a blind test…
There you go, bring it on… Take my money!
I have come to grips with this and I am at peace with it… Although it has been extremely frustrating, As part of the reason I bought it was the YouTube videos where no one could feel or hear the difference…?! Well, I can feel and hear the difference... I so very much wish I couldn’t…
I do however love the unit for gigging with in ear monitors, it sounds easily as good as any of my amplifiers with real cabinets and I enjoy setting up in 4 minutes with no heavy carrying!

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Metalgreg - as you can see there are differences in views on whether you get the same experience.

I used to use a 4 x12 and switched to FRFR purely to make it easier to set up through a PA ( no messing with mics and getting levels at sound checks).

Is it as good as the amps its profiled? Don't know and don't care. Am I happy with the sound? Totally. Sound guys love it and don;t complain I'm too loud on the backline etc.

So I see the benefit of FRFR is more around a change in the way you approach your set up, not just the sound off your back line. I would suggest if you can afford it, get the pwoered Kemper. Just so much easier in my mind. You can always then run a cab if needed without another peice of kit to lug around.

Personally I have not gone stereo as I see little point...spatial coverage for a guitar is not necessarily a good thing and I see little value in true ping pong delays but its how you use it. Generall guiatr sounds better I think with less rather than more, hence I generally don't use reverb - a guiatr sounfd that sounds full on its own often gets lost in a band...but that's a personal thing...

squarehead.. you mentioned that alot if newcomers realise that the powered kemper and solid state power amp dont behave the same as they are used to with their tube amps.. thats what im looking for.... but HOW do they not behave.. lol.. without hearing it. Pribably hard to describe... lol. Thats what i fear, not liking the solid state side of the amplification...

@Metal Greg

Many people underestimate the work you have to do with the KPA.It is a professional tool.With all pros and cons of such a tool.

It may become a "plug & play" tool later but in the beginning there are many things to learn and the learning curve may stumble in the beginning of the process..to accelarate very soon as you learn to use some key features in the different sections(and mainly the stack section)..

IMO this key issue (amp in the room) is just another question of how much you are ready to make new experiences.I said it here in the past...many things in music are "trainable"..if you have a professional tool like the KPA which gives you hundreds of different tube rigs on a golden plate I see no reason to limit myself putting it again behind the fence called guitar cab..

Guitar cabs do not just "colour" your sound.As the good guys here in this thread already mentioned guitar cabs are decisive for a tube rigs end result ie sound.

I have been gigging my powered Kemper through a conventional guitar cab. I have tried it through various FRFRs and never bonded with that tone. What I have noticed with the powered Kemper is that the response is very linear no matter the volume. With my tube amps, as I turn them up and/or as the night wears on and the amp gets hotter, the high end tends to soften a bit and the amp compresses a bit more. The powered Kemper remains the same as it turns up. This isn't exactly a bad thing, but it did take some playing adjustments by me to compensate. Now that I have adjusted to the differences, I probably prefer the more linear Kemper response. It's not a good thing nor a bad thing. It's just different.

Quote from Metal Greg

squarehead.. you mentioned that alot if newcomers realise that the powered kemper and solid state power amp dont behave the same as they are used to with their tube amps.. thats what im looking for.... but HOW do they not behave.. lol.. without hearing it. Pribably hard to describe... lol. Thats what i fear, not liking the solid state side of the amplification...

I think there are 2 things:
Comparing a Kemper with a tube amp
Does adding a tube power amp to the KPA help get closer to a tube amp sound

Some people feel that the KPA doesn't have the same feel as a tube amp ( more around immediacy and thump). Will adding a tube amp for power help that, again some people believe it does.

The problem is,. this is so subjective, dependent upon what you like, other things in the signal chain, volume, etc. that [you'll struggle to get a definative view.

The KPA seeks to replicate the whole signal chain of tube amps and to my ears does this very well, so why add additional colour. The point is that some of the things you feel on stage from a tube amp are not what comes out of a PA or monitor speakers. Its not apples to apples, plus you have to give it a go yourself. My opinion I suspect is very different to others...

Sorry that doesn't help but hard to explain the feeling...as I said I've never looked back from FRFR, I moved away from tube amps to avoid the variation in their sound, balancing pre and power amp distortion, convenience of set up etc.

I still sometimes use a regular 4 x 12 for backline whilst still going direct FOH purely for spread, but with my set up I invariably have my monitor facing me, unlike a trad backline facing the audience, and let the PA do its job!

Quote from Metal Greg

squarehead.. you mentioned that alot if newcomers realise that the powered kemper and solid state power amp dont behave the same as they are used to with their tube amps.. thats what im looking for.... but HOW do they not behave.. lol.. without hearing it. Pribably hard to describe... lol. Thats what i fear, not liking the solid state side of the amplification...

Hi Greg,
NotScott has explained it very well in that the KPA power amp section is very linear in comparison to that immediate attack, huge, smooth tube tone / feel that many of us old old tube amplifier guys are so accustomed to…
We are all different and tone is so very much subjective... some don’t even notice this, some make adjustments and become accustomed to it, some guys even learn to appreciate it more… We all have different brains and different ears…
The KPA is an absolute joy to work with when you are gigging, especially when I am using in ear monitors, no cabinets to carry, no heavy amplifiers to Carry, no microphones and cables and foot switches to set up... or FX racks…
When a machine or tool is designed, it is designed to do certain things extremely well, the KPA sounds incredible through PA systems, the different tones accessible are endless and it does what it was designed to do flawlessly, the remote foot switch, in my opinion, is absolutely perfect, they did a tremendous job with the remote and put extreme thought into it… It’s perfect for the gigging musician!

anyone ever use another foot controller? Are we allowed to discuss that?

And thank you all!!

Greg, after spending almost 6 months with the KPA, I wouldn’t even think of any other foot controller...
At my age, I have enough trouble working with the matching foot controller to get everything working properly let alone trying to learn another foot controller

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