Cab TOTAL BYPASS on monitor outs

  • I was perusing one of xpennos threads earlier and it made me think about the monitor/ no cab output.
    Mr Kemper stated that even with the cabs sims switched off in the monitor section (via the soft switch) a portion of the cab sim is retained to give the impression of changing cabs even while using a power amp and guitar cab.
    Whilst this may be very useful to many, it would I reckon be just as useful to many others to be able to switch it off completely in the monitor outs while keeping the cab sim on the main outputs.
    Try this for a test.


    Load up one of the direct profiles. (there are some Mesa mk 5 ones or my afd100 or evh ones.
    Connect a power amp and guitar cab to the monitor out. Ensure you have selected cabs off in the monitor section
    Play the profile.
    Now switch off the cab section. Nothing happens (naturally, its a direct profile with no cab)
    Now then change the cab to any of the others on the KPA.


    There is a difference. Even though the monitor section has cabs turned off a small amount of the cab profile can be heard.
    Although this is probably a good thing in many cases, there may be instances where you want it off completely.
    Certainly there are many summer festival gigs my band plays at where you turn up with an amp and there is a cab on stage already miced up. Would be nice to plug into that for monitoring and get the fully direct sound and just tell the sound man to use your main outs (with the cabs on) direct to the desk. Hell, he might even mix in a bit of the miced signal.


    I reckon it would be a major improvement if we have the option of a total cab bypass in the monitor section.


    Anyone with me?

  • +1 on that. Did Christoph Kemper really state that this partial retaining of cab sound on the monitor out is really by intention???


    I thought it was just limit of the combined profiling process of amps and cabs, and these sound could be mostly separated, but not 100%. It it is by intention though, you should be able to remove that. I want my monitor our totally uncolored..

  • From the Kemper amps FAQs


    How do different amp profiles work with the same monitor cabinet on stage?
    We are aware that a significant portion of the characteristics of a profile lies in the cabinet simulation. When you switch the cabinet off, this portion is lost, and replaced by the cabinet you connect to the monitor output. Our solution is to keep the base character of the cabinet in the profile, when you switch it off, to combine it with the external cabinet. In this way, the original character shines through the real cabinet and even gives you the impression of swapping the cabinet on stage when you change to another profile.


    Can I profile just my pre amp?
    Yes you can! Instead of feeding the microphone signal back, simply plug the effect send output of your amp head into the Return of the KPA. When you profile just the pre-amp, the virtual cabinet is without content, so you will not hear any difference when you switch it on or off.
    When you connect the Main Outputs or the Monitor Output of the KPA with the effect return jack of your amp head, you will get the same sound as you get with your real amp. If you don't want to reconnect to your original amp, then simply choose a cabinet from another profile in the Kemper Amp.


    Ive done some profiles using the direct out of a palmer PDI03, which in effect gives a profile of the preamp and power amp but no cab. When I play this profile it makes no difference whether the cabinet is switched on or off, there is nothing there. I have actually saved this 'empty' cabinet to try with other profiles using power amp/cab and it is identical to actually switching the cabs off (Just as a test)
    Additionally I can add existing cab profiles to my direct profile, and this works well on the main outs to pa, but it colours the sound on the monitor outs (power amp/guitar cab) even though 'cabs off' is selected.
    Im no expert, but if I can run a direct profile (with no cab, switching cab on and off makes no difference) surely it should be possible to add a cab without it affecting the monitor outs (after all that sound is available using only the amp part of the profile).


    I would be nice if it could be done thats for sure.

  • AGREE 100%!!!


    It's gotta have the ability to switch cab sims totally on/off per output. A cab mix control might be useful, as well as programmable eq per output.


    I hope they add this soon.


    My live setup will eventually be stereo out to board and monitor output to power amp/cab. I wish the monitor outs were stereo as well. Oh well.


  • Certainly there are many summer festival gigs my band plays at where you turn up with an amp and there is a cab on stage already miced up. Would be nice to plug into that for monitoring and get the fully direct sound and just tell the sound man to use your main outs (with the cabs on) direct to the desk.

    This is the exact reason and application, why we made the CabOff funktion as it is.
    If the cab was fully switched off, you had to rely only on the sound of a real cabinet on stage, that might not match the profiles you play.
    By our solution, you get closer to the profiled sound.


    And it might not be a good idea to mix that cabinet to the main out sound, as you would face unpredicable phase cancelations. Use the cab for stage monitoring only.


    CK

  • I think a cabinet mix control would be a win-win situation.


    For the festival situation mentioned above I can totally see what CK's logic was.


    But, for a direct to-power-amp/speaker combination, not being able to disable the cab sim 100% makes the sound quality take a huge hit IMO. I sure felt it when I was testing my brand new KPA last night...none of the factory profiles felt right. But when I profiled a preamp directly (not mic'ed) all the magic was back.


    In reference to the festival situation again, if your band's music contains a bunch of super-customized signature tones, I think you'd be better off NOT using the mic'd cabinet onstage at all, since it is a variable out of your control. You have no idea how the cabinet speakers are going to respond to your settings. It could make for a really bad experience. You'd be better off not using the provided cabinet at all and just having the sound guy feed you your guitar signal through the stage monitors. Even though your onstage experience may not be as rewarding, your rig would sound like your rig and the chances of things going wonky lessen considerably.

  • The direct profile thing works very well with poweramp/cab though doesn't it?
    Im using the direct out on a palmer PDI03. That way I get the amp and power amp in the profile with no cab. I can always add a cab later if I want to go direct.


    I would think you're application would work fine! I know for sure that using the effects send (no power amp or speakers) works perfect. In fact, it turns a "one trick pony" amp into a multi channel amp. For example, I have a Reason Bambino Grande head and profiled directly from the effects send. When I was done profiling, I hooked back the KPA monitor out to the Bambino effects return. It sounded identical to the original, except now I could go from clean to scream via preset.

  • Man I hope this happens soon.


    I've been touting the KPA to all my gigging Las Vegas guitar player friends (many performing on the Strip in front of thousands of people every month) and the response that keeps coming back is, "Can I go direct to a power/amp and guitar cab too?"


    Then I have to go into a lengthy explanation about how if you want to run it into a power amp & guitar cab, you would want 100% authentic preamp tone going into the power amp first. To accomplish that you would have to profile the preamp directly because the cabinet can't be disabled entirely. But that messes up your mic'd cabinet sound direct to the FOH. At that point you have to mic your cab anyway which defeats the purpose of having the KPA and turns it into a "preamp-only" solution.


    Then they look at me like I'm crazy. I can practically hear their minds thinking "The KPA is not for me".


    Very frustrating.

  • Yes ! Christoph,PLEASE !!! Let us have 100% clean preamp sound from monitor out..It's VERY importand in my setup...I have hard time now because of actual limitation..PLEASE !


    Now I have to mic cab and give it to FOH instead of giving them a nice cab simulation from main outputs...cause when I add any cab sim to my preamp profile the sound of my monitor output changes in to something which I can't use with my power amp/speaker setup ! ..Disabling cab sim on monitor output doesn't work properly,at the moment..

  • I'd like to add my vote to this request. I've been setting up for my first club gig with the KPA. It's at place with a decent front of house system but not particularly good monitors. That's typical of the places I play. I had hoped to use a clean power amp and guitar cab to monitor the KPA and send the main outputs to the house system but I can't get a sound I'm happy with going to the power amp and cab unless I turn off the cab section in the KPA and run the main out to the power amp and cab. Then I don't have the speaker on to send to the house system. The same is true if I use a DI profile and a "blank" cab. Please give those of us who like to use the KPA live the option to completely turn off cabs on the monitor out while having the full rig on the main outs.


    Thanks,


    Brian

  • This is the exact reason and application, why we made the CabOff funktion as it is.
    If the cab was fully switched off, you had to rely only on the sound of a real cabinet on stage, that might not match the profiles you play.
    By our solution, you get closer to the profiled sound.


    And it might not be a good idea to mix that cabinet to the main out sound, as you would face unpredicable phase cancelations. Use the cab for stage monitoring only.


    CK

    1+ for a COMPLETE cab bypass.


    I'm fine if the real guitar cab is not identical to the mains out. 99% of the time I'm playing through a tube power amp and guitar cab. So far the only profiles that sound good on my rig are the DI ones.

  • Spkr sim on ore off




    I hope Chris can fix this!


    even my old Rocktron from the 90s can turn the spkr sim on, ore out both
    ways . Can have spkr sim on left and without, on right channel. I need
    to have my sound from kemper, with spk sim thrue the PA and without in
    my rivera stereo amp effect loop with two cabinets.Every thing should be
    stereo.So the effects from Kemper is in stereo.

  • I'm still bummed about this. I've owned mine for awhile now and can't believe this feature isn't available.


    Using the KPA as a preamp-only option into a poweramp/cab just doesn't produce decent results IMO.


    I'm afraid I'll have to shell out the $$$ for an AXE-FX II. Sad. :(

  • I'm still bummed about this. I've owned mine for awhile now and can't believe this feature isn't available.


    Using the KPA as a preamp-only option into a poweramp/cab just doesn't produce decent results IMO.


    I'm afraid I'll have to shell out the $$$ for an AXE-FX II. Sad. :(

    ?(
    That's not what you said when CK changed the monitor out a few firmwares ago...you said it was awesome and "fixed".
    Before you shell out for an Axe, wait for NAMM.

  • ?(
    That's not what you said when CK changed the monitor out a few firmwares ago...you said it was awesome and "fixed".
    Before you shell out for an Axe, wait for NAMM.


    True, you got me on that one! :rolleyes:


    After working with it on stage over the course of a few months afterwards, I felt differently. Actually I didn't like it live at all. :pinch:


    I guess I'm too much of an amp-in-room guy to change. :S


    Wait for NAMM?!?!?! Now that just hurts! hahaha :D