Clean Sense - I am somewhat confused!

  • Hi all,


    I'd done a load of reading on this and watched the official video but still don't get this 100% tbh. Distortion Sense is easy to understand on the other hand..


    I've basically taken the approach of running a high-gain profile with each of my guitars and then adjusted the clean sense to get the volume as close as I can when the gain knob is adjusted from max to min - I've then saved these as input presets for my guitars with whatever clean sense setting appears to give unity volume. I have to say this is a bit difficult however given the differing compression characteristics of clean/distorted signals..


    The thing I don't understand is what exactly is it doing? Is it simply increasing the input level of the guitar (post AD conversion) when the gain is rolled down downwards on the Kemper? Does the input change in proportion to the gain setting i.e. as I roll down gain from max to min is the input increased proportionally or does it kick in at a certain gain point?


    I've seen posts where people are stating they 'found a sweet spot for this' (based on tonal quality) but I can't hear any real difference in the tone of a stack irrespective of the clean sense setting - a stack rolled back to gain at the lowest level sounds the same to me irrespective of the clean sense setting (providing I adjust the rig volume to compensate for volume change at the output).


    Am I missing something here or am I paying the price for years of 4x12 abuse!


    Any insights appreciated..


    Regards,


    Si

  • Thanks guys - I appreciate the input.


    I suppose the responses sort of highlight my issue (which is one of understanding really!).


    What exactly is a 'clean profile'? I have profiles that are clean (ish) i.e. have lower gain settings but none that are 1 light lit on the gain control. I use Mike Britt's stuff mostly and the cleanest thing I have is about 3 lights lit on the gain control.


    To be honest I'm starting to feel through my experiments that Clean Sense has actually been designed to allow the gain knob on a rig to be user configured to fine tune the behaviour of the rig as the gain is changed (based on the guitar being used to drive the input).


    What I am saying here is that clean sense setting seems to be irrelevant if you are not going to adjust the gain knob by a great margin on any rig. A clean profile is a clean profile and hence you can use the rig volume to adjust the final level if it's not right. Clean Sense only matters if you intend to take a profile and wind the gain down or up by a reasonable degree. I tend not to as I find a rig that is in the 'ball park' and then work from there in relatively small degrees.


    It also suggests why the setting is also available per rig (and globally of course) as some rigs might behave differently as the gain knob is wound up and down. Maybe :)


    Perhaps I'm going mad :)


    Si

  • What I am saying here is that clean sense setting seems to be irrelevant if you are not going to adjust the gain knob by a great margin on any rig. A clean profile is a clean profile and hence you can use the rig volume to adjust the final level if it's not right. Clean Sense only matters if you intend to take a profile and wind the gain down or up by a reasonable degree. I tend not to as I find a rig that is in the 'ball park' and then work from there in relatively small degrees.

    I think the idea is that level between individual rigs should be level-matched across the board by the kemper (the profiling process?), BUT this does not take into account your specific guitars. Thus, in order for you to avoid volume jumps when going from a clean rig to a distorted one you have the clean sens parameter to adjust for this.

  • Every time I read one of these CS/DS threads my brain hurts and I realise what I THINK I know, I probably don't.
    That's why I'm glad a couple of years ago when I just did two settings, one for a Strat and one for a Les Paul and hardly touched it since...even though I use maybe 10 guitars through it.


    Probably not getting the best out of it but I'm doing more playing and less tweaking ever since.

  • I was watching the digital levels from my Kemper over S/PDIF recently and had an "aha" moment. With the output to "Git/Stack" mode (unprocessed DI guitar in the left channel, amp in the right) It got me thinking... this might be a chance to test whether "Clean Sens" works as a true (hopefully pre-A/D) trim or not. After experimenting a bit, I can say that lowering/raising CS affects the DI channel level (but not the stack) accordingly independent of amp gain. Plus, the digital output levels for the DI side mirror the way the input level warning LED responds; green, yellow or red.


    So - as a general rule of principle, it sure seems like setting Clean Sens by monitoring Git/Stack DI levels seems like a sensible and accurate gain staging technique - no guesswork involved, and tailored appropriately to your guitar pickups.


    -djh