Running to FOH at Church was a mess. Any advice!?

    Ok so I've only owned my Kemper for about two weeks so it's ok to approach me as an idiot :S . I play mostly worship music at a very large church. Until now I've been using a traditional setup with pedals and a 65 DRRI. I just got to the point where I was tired of lugging the amp, plus the sound guys have stated that eventually we will go away from live amps and replace them with amp sims. I don't want to play through something like a POD so I thought this would be a good chance to build my own rig that will easily run to FOH. So, this weekend I tried to run my board in front of the Kemper while using a clean Matchless profile (can't remember the exact profile name). The rig sounded pretty decent while practicing at home with the headphone jack but when I plugged in at church that's when things got ugly.


    My volume seemed distant and none existent in my in-ear monitors. My overdrive pedals were also very muddy and sounded like fizzle. I believe all the hype regarding the Kemper and know for sure that it has to be something I've done incorrectly but it's left me wondering if I need the Kemper for what I'm doing. I would love to know how you guys run to FOH. Where is your master volume set on the Kemper, which jack do run out of the Kemper, etc... and what's the best way to set OD pedal volume / gain in conjunction with the Kemper. I know that's a lot of questions but I don't get the opportunity to plug in at church and fiddle with stuff so anything I can get from here will be useful.


    The alternative would be to return the Kemper and get some sort of cab sim like the Torpedo CAB and just use my pedalboard to run to FOH. I really don't want to do that because I see the possibilities with this piece of equipment. If I have to be truthful, I'm looking for the easiest way to go direct and ditch the amp. Any tips are greatly appreciated.


    My chain this morning was:


    Fender American Tele --> Vol Pedal --> JHS Double Barrel --> Strymon Riverside --> Xotic Booster (level all the way down) --> POG --> Strymon Mobis --> Strymon Timeline --> Strymon Big Sky --> into Kemper Instrument Jack --> Clean Matchless Profile as is.


    I use a tail loop so the OD pedals are off and I toggle on the one I need (no stacking of OD currently).

    If you never changed any settings in the output menu and use the main outs to connect the Profiler to the FOH mixer you should be fine.
    If you messed with these settings just make sure that Master Stereo is selected as the output source for the main outs.
    That will send the same signal that you heard on headphones to the FOH.

    When sending to FOH, I don't LINK the MAIN OUTPUT to the Kemper MASTER VOLUME control. I also turn the MAIN OUTPUT all the way up. If FOH says it's too much, I back the MAIN OUTPUT volume down to -16db or so. The volume control on the Kemper are linked to the MONITOR OUTPUT and HEADPHONE so I can control these.

    Learn to Swim

    Quote from Ingolf

    When it sounded good at home through your headphones the most important question for me is what feed you got for your in-ears.


    Ingolg, good question. This was a very big production with 5 vocalist, 2 electric guitars, 1 acoustic guitar, bass, drums, piano, keys, full orchestra with strings and a big choir.


    I remember the sound guy checked my pack to make sure he had the right mix for me. We fought it for 2 days with no avail. I really think it's me and the way I had things running to the Kemper. I didn't change anything in the internals of the unit regarding output. I left the rig volume alone and set the master volume to about 6.5. One question, for the Params on the amp profile (base, presence, etc) can I assume that 0.0 is 12 oclock?

    Quote from midseason

    Ingolg, good question. This was a very big production with 5 vocalist, 2 electric guitars, 1 acoustic guitar, bass, drums, piano, keys, full orchestra with strings and a big choir.


    I remember the sound guy checked my pack to make sure he had the right mix for me. We fought it for 2 days with no avail. I really think it's me and the way I had things running to the Kemper. I didn't change anything in the internals of the unit regarding output. I left the rig volume alone and set the master volume to about 6.5. One question, for the Params on the amp profile (base, presence, etc) can I assume that 0.0 is 12 oclock?

    You fought for 2 days to no avail? Something must have been seriously wrong then.
    Like it was said before, I would always UNLINK Master Volume from the Main Volume Knob and in the Output menu make sure I'd send solid -18 dB and not more to not overload the mixer.
    The Main Output should be set to Master Mono (Stereo only if you send 2 XLR's to FOH).
    Also make sure the Ouput EQ is flat.
    This should actually guarantee that what comes out of FOH is what you hear with your own headphones.
    I would check with the soundguys what went wrong in retrospect.

    Quote from Ingolf

    You fought for 2 days to no avail? Something must have been seriously wrong then.Like it was said before, I would always UNLINK Master Volume from the Main Volume Knob and in the Output menu make sure I'd send solid -18 dB and not more to not overload the mixer.
    The Main Output should be set to Master Mono (Stereo only if you send 2 XLR's to FOH).
    Also make sure the Ouput EQ is flat.
    This should actually guarantee that what comes out of FOH is what you hear with your own headphones.
    I would check with the soundguys what went wrong in retrospect.

    Haha, 2 days was a stretch. It was two days of performances but I only had about 30 minutes per day to work with the sound guy on my tone / signal. My tone is normally very solid when using my board and my amp and they didn't anticipated that I was going to do something different. It was really hard for them to spend more time with me given the number of people on stage. My fault totally and I chalk it up to a learning experience. I should have been more familiar with the unit before jumping into the deep end with it. I'll go back and look at the settings that you mentioned and try to make some sense of it. the one thing I don't understand is most Params are set to 0.0 . Is this setting 12oclock or off? For example, I normally run my tube amp on 6 with my overdrive pedal volume around unity with the amp volume and then adjust the gain on the pedal for more dirt. It produces a great tone and this is what I guess I need to do in the Kemper since it acts like a true amp. I'm just not sure where to put the kemper on 6. Does that make sense? thanks for helping man, really appreciate you weeding through the dumb questions.

    Quote from Ingolf

    You fought for 2 days to no avail? Something must have been seriously wrong then.Like it was said before, I would always UNLINK Master Volume from the Main Volume Knob and in the Output menu make sure I'd send solid -18 dB and not more to not overload the mixer.
    The Main Output should be set to Master Mono (Stereo only if you send 2 XLR's to FOH).
    Also make sure the Ouput EQ is flat.
    This should actually guarantee that what comes out of FOH is what you hear with your own headphones.
    I would check with the soundguys what went wrong in retrospect.

    Ingolf's suggestions and the others are the place to start here. I would try these suggestions, also what matchless profile are you using? One of the free Mbritt ones? Why do you have the volume on the Xotic booster all the way down out of curiosity, just to get the EQ and no boost?


    I play in church every week (not quite as large of a production but we do have a full band with 4 - 5 vocalists, 3 guitars, bass, drums & 2 keys players). If you have any questions about the Kemper related to worship music (or anything else), let me know. I've been using it since 2013 but still don't know everything there is to know! I don't run a pedal board in front of it though, I sold all my pedals (Timeline, morning glory, Carbon copy, etc, etc) and use only the built in effects and stomps on the Kemper. But, I know it takes pedals just fine as I've tried that for myself. Have you tried to run the Kemper without the pedalboard? (just plug your guitar straight into it, and play without your pedalboard to eliminate that being an issue just in case).


    It really sounds like it might be an output issue to me (ie, one of the settings is wrong as suggested above). As the other guys have stated, the Kemper has a really hot signal out of the XLR outs, so you need to make sure you dial it back to about -18db like Ingolf suggested. Did FOH mention the inputs on their board being clipped? I assume not, but just in case try that.


    If I don't dial back to about -18 or -20db, it clips the inputs on our board and the FOH guys have no control. I would check that for sure, the default setting is 0db and it is too hot for many boards.


    I don't think the volume level from your pedals is causing the kemper to clip, but that is possible too. Hopefully you will be able to try these changes and they help.

    The first thing that stands out to me is trying to match what you hear out of headphones at home, to what you hear out of mixed in ears at the church. Ruling out any issues with the Kemper settings, and sending the signal to FOH, that right there seems like it is a recipe for disaster.


    Assuming you check and rule out the settings issues, my recommendation would be to work with decent monitors (FRFR or close) first at home, to make sure that you didn't tweak the profiles due to some sort of eq from the headphones, and then at the church, to really hear what the sound guy is sending. THEN, you can make an educated decision on how he should tweak the mix for your in ears.

    I would purchase a small mixer for home use, so you can practise and check how it will sound at the board. As others have said, I would set the mains to Mono master or you could get some weird things happening if you only send one side of the output.


    Was your sound out front washy, or just in your ears?
    Listening to /setting up the Kemper while using its headphone out is not the best practice, as you hear differently in headphones since you hear the signal isolated in each ear. When listening without headphones you always hear with two ears, even if a sound is panned.


    Thanks for the reply Timdabel. I will consider losing the pedals external to the unit. The problem is I have put so much money into the board and I like the tone I get from them but I'm sure the Kemper will sounds great without them. I'm in the phase where I’m trying to integrate the board with the Kemper while running a clean amp profile. Once I get more knowledgeable with the Kemper then I may start shedding the OD pedals and continue using my time-based stuff in the loop (timeline, big sky and mobius).


    I wasn't actually going out of the XLRs. I had to plug in to the unbalanced 1/4 cable jack (left). As Engolf mention, I was not set to Mono for the Mains so that may be why things sounded bad. I also have backed the vol down to -18 as mentioned. Sounds guys didn't mention any clipping issues but I will go back to ask them. Thanks for your help man!


    Thanks for the reply Timdabel. I will consider losing the pedals external to the unit. The problem is I have put so much money into the board and I like the tone I get from them but I'm sure the Kemper will sounds great without them. I'm in the phase where I’m trying to integrate the board with the Kemper while running a clean amp profile. Once I get more knowledgeable with the Kemper then I may start shedding the OD pedals and continue using my time-based stuff in the loop (timeline, big sky and mobius).


    I wasn't actually going out of the XLRs. I had to plug in to the unbalanced 1/4 cable jack (left). As Engolf mention, I was not set to Mono for the Mains so that may be why things sounded bad. I also have backed the vol down to -18 as mentioned. Sounds guys didn't mention any clipping issues but I will go back to ask them. Thanks for your help man!


    *EDIT* - The Xotic was on but turned all the way down. It just gives the tone a nice color. As for the profile, it was a purchased MBritt Matchless Profile but I don't remember which. I do know it was clean with very little gain.

    Quote from drog

    I would purchase a small mixer for home use, so you can practise and check how it will sound at the board. As others have said, I would set the mains to Mono master or you could get some weird things happening if you only send one side of the output.


    Was your sound out front washy, or just in your ears?
    Listening to /setting up the Kemper while using its headphone out is not the best practice, as you hear differently in headphones since you hear the signal isolated in each ear. When listening without headphones you always hear with two ears, even if a sound is panned.

    Very good idea drog. I do have a small mixer at home that I can use. As you mentioned, this will for sure give me an idea of the volume coming out, As far as I could tell the tone was not as bad as what I could hear in my in-ears. I do know the sound guys had to work with it a good deal. I did check and the mains were not set to Mono Master. I changed that and will try again with my mixer. Thanks man!

    Quote from midseason

    Thanks for the reply Timdabel. I will consider losing the pedals external to the unit. The problem is I have put so much money into the board and I like the tone I get from them but I'm sure the Kemper will sounds great without them. I'm in the phase where I’m trying to integrate the board with the Kemper while running a clean amp profile. Once I get more knowledgeable with the Kemper then I may start shedding the OD pedals and continue using my time-based stuff in the loop (timeline, big sky and mobius).


    I wasn't actually going out of the XLRs. I had to plug in to the unbalanced 1/4 cable jack (left). As Engolf mention, I was not set to Mono for the Mains so that may be why things sounded bad. I also have backed the vol down to -18 as mentioned. Sounds guys didn't mention any clipping issues but I will go back to ask them. Thanks for your help man!


    *EDIT* - The Xotic was on but turned all the way down. It just gives the tone a nice color. As for the profile, it was a purchased MBritt Matchless Profile but I don't remember which. I do know it was clean with very little gain.

    Just to be clear, I wasn't meaning for you to get rid of all your pedals, just that you could try it for purposes of making sure it wasn't the pedals (just for troubleshooting). As I said before, I think it was the settings in the Kemper. The other guys sent you down the right path, so try it again. I know from the rest of the forum that the Kemper takes pedals like an amp, so it shouldn't be an issue for you to keep them all (Believe me, I know the investment, I did the huge pedalboard thing for quite a while - I had an overflowing full Pedal Train PT3!). Good luck with figuring out the issue!

    By the way, there are a couple of threads where people are new to Kemper like yourself and start off with earphones only. Usually they haven't been able to get a good sound, so come to the forum and then everyone says find an amp, and plug into that. Then once they plug into an amp, it seems the issue with Kemper sound was resolved. Your experience is the other way, in that you like the headphone sound, but you are still experiencing a different sound when comparing headphones to main out.


    I got myself a wired in-ear setup about three months ago with a little two channel headphone amp. With those forum thread experiences in mind, just out of interest I compared the Kemper headphone output to the Kemper monitor output and adjusted volume manually so levels were about the same on each. For whatever reason, I found the same thing as the others, the headphone output sounded like a blanket over an amp, but the monitor output had the same tone as I was getting via FOH.
    So as I suggested above, if the headphone amp is delivering different sound than monitor out or main out, then that could be a source of the problem.


    And as others have said. Start with the simple case:
    - no pedalboard
    - main out into a home mixer
    - you might also like to try "monitor out" into the effects return of your guitar amp (using effects return will bypass the guitar amp preamp because the Kemper is doing that role). Then turn off the guitar cabinet in then Kemper (settings are in the Output menu and button on front). Your guitar amp will colour the sound from the Kemper but you can still hear the difference in profiles, and you'll still be able to tell if there is a good sound from the Kemper or fizz.


    When you have a good sound, then plug the pedalboard in and if there is an issue add pedals in one by one. The Kemper has an effects send and return which you might want to use for delays, reverb and chorus.

    Also, just a side note, the Mbritt profiles are already tuned to be used over a loud PA. What that means is that they are usually a bit darker than you might expect for a given amp. That might be something to factor in to the equation, but I am sure that isn't the problem here, just something to be aware of. I find his profiles sound really spot on for worship type tones without any tweaking, if you've tweaked it a bunch, you might want to go back to the original. In my experience, you don't really need to tweak much with his stuff.

    I use my kemper at church all the time. Running a board into it, currently. May switch to the onboard effects eventually; but I actually encountered the same issue you did when I first started using it.


    So my question to you is what is your sound system like? Avioms? Is the signal hitting your ears pre or post eq?


    In my case we discovered that my signal was hitting my ears post eq. Changed that and problem solved. Also, when you're trying to dial in your sound, dial it in in the mix. I can get good tones with the kemper all day long that sound like garbage in a mix.

    I would recommend doing what I do for worship team.
    I use a small mixer (4 input) and run Left and Right 1/4" of Kemper output to mixer.
    Then I send the In-Ear output of the mix from the house to the other input of the small mixer.
    Then I send left and right XLR of Kemper to FOH.
    I have a good over ear headset that I plug into the phone jack of small mixer.
    This is a Beautiful setup, everything sounds Studio quality.