After 3 days of constant reamping... UPDATE: getting solved!

  • your trying to get a tone from a completely different tone to begin with, this is the problem.


    No matter what you add or do,m it will always sound processed. normally the SOURCE is the target. must get it right here.


    SO, I suggest you record the track with a DI, then re-amp it with a real cab with room amb or use some other platform. its your only way really.

  • @and44 thank you very much for sharing your tips. It is always greatly appreciated hearing from those who have a professional studio.


    You prefer analog compressors vs a cheaper plugin? Analog gear adds more warmth?

    Your welcome : ) - Well I will always go analogue as that's preferd. but you can get some great tones from waves or UAD plugins (or others) but as said above.. AS long as the Source is right first.. it does not matter so much on the post gear. Compression is more important at tracking on the way in, than it is at post btw.


    What is reaslly important in making a record is the room.. its all about the live room and how accurate it is. - this is why we exist (our studios) : ) haha

  • The white line is the difference Ozone applies to make them sound the same.


    And no, those 8000 points is what makes Ozone the ability to ACTUALLY match tones.
    The built in EQs in Kemper can NOT do that, even tho you claimed it a while ago :thumbup:


    Yes I do tweak the treble and presence too but I'm still not getting the results I'm affter


    The player is not really a factor even worth mentioning. But I knew somebody would bring it up X/
    Guitar, maybe. More pickups. But from experience humbuckers of various sorts sound different, but not THAT different.
    This is all about the amp
    And maybe post processing, I guess.
    But I wanna have a good tone right out of Kemper, thats the goal for me...

  • Which profile of his did you use?

    Holy moly I just realized I "lied" ||


    It was not stock, I DID change a little gain, added "pick" and removed the low-pass filter from one of the EQs in post section.


    All that was to try to reach the attack of the Iron Savior track, but I forgot I even did the changes before I posted it all online...


    Sorry, my head is spinning like a racing wheel as you may undersstand, I have almost doen nothing but reamping for several days and I'm pretty tired in my head :S


    So yeah, it was not stock, but not terribly tweaked either.


    The profile was BRITJV OD1 3



    your trying to get a tone from a completely different tone to begin with, this is the problem.


    No matter what you add or do,m it will always sound processed. normally the SOURCE is the target. must get it right here.


    SO, I suggest you record the track with a DI, then re-amp it with a real cab with room amb or use some other platform. its your only way really.

    Yeah I know this, but thats obvious.


    The problem here is that no profile I have tried even gets close to those sounds.


    Could you make a bunch of custom profiles, if I sent a couple reference tracks? I honestly want this whole charade to be over with and get on with rocking out :thumbup:

  • "But I wanna have a good tone right out of Kemper, thats the goal for me..."


    but where are the KPA recordings with that kind off tone ?


    maybe you are raising the bar to high ........ :rolleyes:

  • "But I wanna have a good tone right out of Kemper, thats the goal for me..."


    but where are the KPA recordings with that kind off tone ?


    maybe you are raising the bar to high ........ :rolleyes:

    Well I cannot get anywhere near the tones I have been looking for


    UNLESS I use Izotope Ozone EQ Matching but then I think there is way too much fiddling with the frequencies and I fear it gets some loss of sound quality because of it, there's quality big EQ changes ...

  • Compression is more important at tracking on the way in, than it is at post btw.

    So I should have an analog compressor after the Kemper going into my interface? Also, use the compressor on the master bus for the entire mix post? Stupid question, you said this earlier "time the attack/release with the timing of the song". How is this done?

  • Err excuse me but we have not identified the problem yet , don't jump the gun
    Let us search for a solution first


    That's all


    Ash

    Have a beer and don't sneer. -CJ. Two non powered Kempers -Two mission stereo FRFR Cabs - Ditto X4 -TC electronic Mimiq.

  • So I should have an analog compressor after the Kemper going into my interface? Also, use the compressor on the master bus for the entire mix post? Stupid question, you said this earlier "time the attack/release with the timing of the song". How is this done?

    Well no you dont _need it_ of course. - but for me as a studio owner when i track bands, I do Mixing as I go.. so I will try and mix the song in the live room, with the right sound, right mix, and attitude. so when it hits the board its already going to sound the way I want it too. - this you cant adjust in post without loosing a great deal to "processing". - this way at Mixdown, you can simply just sweeten. no corrective stuff done. this is why commercial records sound the way they do. because the Live room is where its all at!. and rather turning 540 knobs to get you there, you simply multitrack the band and move mics instead of reaching for EQ knobs..


    In fact, I dont use EQ either unless I really have too. - this is the benefit of having such a great Live Space and accurate mixing room, is that you can really hear the details of what you need or what you dont.


    So in terms of compressing, that will always be a choice thing, sadly having it from the kemper to board wont make much of a difference as the sound is not naturally live. you need it as per <source>>mic >Channel strip >Compression >EQ>Tape


    Compression is a key element in ones toolbox as it helps keep consistency in a busy mix. if you add a Mixbuss compression to control this then your on the wrong path. - adding EQ and comp there is fine, but not for control, but to solidify the mix better. they are 2 different things. - everything needs to be seperate but to sound as ONE. - and the bigger you try and make the mix the smaller it will become.


    In terms of attack & release, these settings on a compressor are the most important. - attack meaning how fast it attacks the transient of the sound, and relese how fast it lets it go after compressing. - the way to use a compresser is to get the sound to be immediate but in time with the song, so time the attack and release with the riff or song.. - using nothing but ears to tell you that. - hopefully that makes sence : )


    Sorry for the OT discussion guys I was simply replying to a question.

  • Which makes 99.9% of all Kemper profiles bad per autamatic?


    Since they need so much post processing (especially EQ, according to Ozone)

  • Which makes 99.9% of all Kemper profiles bad per autamatic?
    Since they need so much post processing (especially EQ, according to Ozone)

    No it does not. - The kemper is a perfect tool, but you need to understand the correct way its "meant" to be used. - it was never meant for people to sell profiles, or to have a zillion profiles to go through.. its about your amps your setup and snapshotting your own sound. therefore, working the way it was intended. - just sop happens that the kemper community took on to Profiles. (and they used them well) - so noting wrong with whats out there from me or anyone else. but if your making a commercial record, then loading up a random profile is never going to get you the full way there.


    But.... Making the amp ready, prepping it for studio recording, then snapshotting that for the live gigs is however an amazing thing to do!. - we all have different applications, needs and wishes, the Kemper by now covers everything. - its a tool, uses it the best way you can.


    And if one knows what they are doing, the kemper with a random profile can also sound amazing.. Ive seen ti done, Ive heard and witnessed this on many occasions. - so yeah... but I WILL SAY THIS!!. - IF you really cant get your thing with it using other profiles. then this means one thing.. you need to profile your own. to get your own footprint done. there is only that way!.


    There are soooo many equasions out there that interfere with a Great profile. - Room, Speakers/moniters, cables, strings, woods, room size, ears, fingers, guitar, the wind etc etc. if you can eliminate all of those to your own desires then it will always be a better outcome.

  • No it does not. - The kemper is a perfect tool, but you need to understand the correct way its "meant" to be used. - it was never meant for people to sell profiles, or to have a zillion profiles to go through.. its about your amps your setup and snapshotting your own sound. therefore, working the way it was intended. - just sop happens that the kemper community took on to Profiles. (and they used them well) - so noting wrong with whats out there from me or anyone else. but if your making a commercial record, then loading up a random profile is never going to get you the full way there.
    But.... Making the amp ready, prepping it for studio recording, then snapshotting that for the live gigs is however an amazing thing to do!. - we all have different applications, needs and wishes, the Kemper by now covers everything. - its a tool, uses it the best way you can.


    And if one knows what they are doing, the kemper with a random profile can also sound amazing.. Ive seen ti done, Ive heard and witnessed this on many occasions. - so yeah... but I WILL SAY THIS!!. - IF you really cant get your thing with it using other profiles. then this means one thing.. you need to profile your own. to get your own footprint done. there is only that way!.


    There are soooo many equasions out there that interfere with a Great profile. - Room, Speakers/moniters, cables, strings, woods, room size, ears, fingers, guitar, the wind etc etc. if you can eliminate all of those to your own desires then it will always be a better outcome.

    That does make sense.


    I guess I'll have to:


    A) ask somebody to profile for me, sending reference files
    B) book myself to a studio in Sweden that has the right amps.. because I cerainly dont hahaha


    The first one might be annoying and time waste for both parts (because I'm so goddamn picky :thumbup: ), and the later however might be more expensive than I can afford... But not sure!


    We have a studio were my band rehearsal but I have been there once and the guitar tone we recorded sucked so I wont trust that guy again.


    By the way I need some desperate feedback on latest mix...
    I just took away all the treble and highs from drums because the general critisism of my work has been either:


    A) too bright and harsch
    B) not enough bass


    Now, both are probably right, but I think "too bright" is closer to the truth. Having so much treble as I usually do, of course makes the bass impossible to raise up, it will just be a mess. So instead of raising the lows, I just lowered all highs from snare, overheads, kick and other things. Also, made the overheads a little quieter than before

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    I LIKE sharp precise sounds, but I think I often (as in always || ) exxagerate that with just adding highs on everything, especially the overheads and snare usually gets sharp and unpleasant.


    FOR ME, this mix sounds DULL, but maybe it's just a process of listening/learning??? :S

  • Fact: you can get a million times closer to the bias tones by profiling the bias tones.


    For me that's always the real test.


    Find an amp tone I know I can work with..


    Then see how close the kemper can get. Good profiling plus tricks plus more tricks, plus some voodoo and you get close, power amp distortion included.


    Is it the totally the same? Nope. Kemper footprint is there.


    Then question becomes whether you can live with the kemper footprint or not. If yes, cool. If not, nope -- many other choices out there, some equally as good at what they do, and definitely better for "post processed" types of tones IF that is what you are after.


    For me: real amp + cab modelling is better. That's largely because of me not being the biggest fan of the "kpa footprint" in the amp section. But it can definitely be different for someone else.


    And it could also be this is not the big issue you are struggling with anyway and I'm conflating things.


    Only thing I can say with certainty is kemper can get miles, miles closer to the bias fx clips posted.


    PS: Finland here :)

    Edited once, last by Dimi84 ().

  • Life is too short, just sell your Kemper and move on. It's really not worth getting this stressed over, with so many other good options out there.

    Woah there. Do not do this. I'd much rather if there is a problem that Kemper know about it and fix it and that Cederic achieve what he wants with the equipment he has.


    @Cederick - I will echo others here. You have to profile the real thing that sounds and reacts how you want on record rather than trying to make other profiles sound and react like something they are not.