Kemper Quantum Leap?

    Floor controllers and editing software sound nice but how about this idea for a quantum leap in Kemper technology:


    Currently one might find a rig profiled with the knobs on the subject amp on one setting. Then, there is often a separate or several separate profiles for other settings on the same amp. So, instead of turning up the kemper's "local" gain or treble or whatever, there is a separate profile. Switching between the two only takes a second or two.


    Now, fast forward with me into the future...


    Since the profiles are so small something like 6kb, how about we take 10,000 profiles of an amp with every permutation and combination of the amp's dials being a separate profile. With this new idea when you turn up the gain on the Kemper it is actually switching profiles. Turn it up again and it is another profile still. Turn the bass up a bit and it's actually a separate profile again, smoothly and seamlessly going from profile to profile like you would experience turning the dials on the real amp i.e. with no delays or hiccups. The sounds would not take on any personality from the Kemper. Maybe the range of sounds in between profiles would be extrapolated.


    As processing speeds go up and storage costs go down, maybe this is how these machines will work in the future? The response of the dials would exactly match the source amp.


    What do you think Mr. Kemper?


    Great idea and one that has been brought up before. We've also thought of things like morphing between two rigs and whatnot if we can't get enough stages. Another idea was to the ability to have custom controls for each profile based on the actual amp so that the actual sounds of the amp would be better reflected.


    Unfortunately, it looks like we'll not get to see that kind of tech in the current iteration of the Kemper.

    Well,


    I'm not so sure wether this quite beautiful and creative idea is possible in the way you mentioned it. In the first place 10000 is a quite to small power of ten than the number of different scenarios you'd actually need for this purpose.
    More important in my view is the fact that amp control changes are dependant on each other especially with tube amps. People who'd like to get something of this kind running have to crossreference every setting of the Kemper controls with actual amp settings.
    If I remember correctly the total number of profiles is something like m to the power of c where m is the number of amp controls and c is the number of settings for each control. Since most controls are not discrete but work continuously you'd get quite a lot of profiles. Last but not least you'd have to match the different numbers of KPA controls and amp controls. Amps without volume/gain master volume knobs would cause some really nasty problems to get matched with the Kemper.
    Even it is possible in the way you describe it, who'd invest the time for taking 10000 profiles and sell the lot for 10 euros?


    Or did I simply misunderstand you?


    Greetings


    Joachim


    Hello Chickster,


    I am not sure if you have thought this through fully. ;):P


    Let's say it takes approximately 3 minutes, on average, to make a profile.


    10,000 x 3 = 30,000 minutes = 500 hours = 21 Days continuous, non-stop.


    However, that doesn't account for the time it takes to manually make the minute, individual, incremental changes to the reference amp's controls, in between taking a new profile (if I understand your post, correctly). So, there is that to consider. Furthermore, one would have to manually input into this hypothetical Kemper, what exact control has been changed, so it can map that to it's internal logic, and re-integrate it when creating the new, final "uber"-profile. In other words, the hypothetical KPA would have to be told exactly what control has been changed (e.g. was it an EQ tone control, was it the gain, was it the relationship between channel volume and master volume, was it a switch in channels of a multi-channel amp, etc., etc.?).


    So, take that original 21 day estimate, and multiply it by 3-5 times (at least).


    100 days of continuous, 24/7 profiling captures. Since that is impossible (need to sleep and eat, and other life support functions). Of course, in reality, the sustained amount of profiling a normal human be able to maintain over the course of an extended period of time, probably would top out at an average of 6 hours in a day. That is only a quarter of a full 24-hour cycle.


    So, that means taking the 21-day continuous profiling estimate, and multiplying it by 4.


    We are now looking at 84 days to make one of these hypothetical "uber" profiles, for just one specific amp.


    Aye yai yai.


    :)


    Cheers,
    John

    The answer, my friends, is blowin' in the winds... of Kemperites here on the forum.


    I and quite a few others have suggested strategic snapshots be taken, which could be extrapolated between parameter-wise.


    I suggested, for example, screen-prompt-led Profiling during which the Kemper would tell you to "Turn the bass control to its minimum value", followed by a mid and then high-value instruction. Rinse and repeat for all controls.


    Pre and power-amp gain-setting combinations could be catered for this way too.


    The resolution (number of snapshots taken per parameter range) offered would be a result of practical utility. Ideally, one would be able to choose whether to, say, employ a lowest-and-highest-only approach, or a much-higher number of increments in accordance with the amount of time one had to play with. I can already see vendors boasting of "Res 10" offerings where, in this example, plenty of time was taken to capture all parameters in 10% segments.


    IMHO, it'd be ridiculous to go beyond such a level of accuracy both for time-constraint reasons as well as real-world result differences. Any volunteers to turn any amp knob up or down by 1% 100 times and land where he or she is supposed to? :D


    Two points for the Bob Dylan reference. Or is it Peter, Paul & Mary? ^^

    Quote from Dlaut

    I predict that the ability to morph between 2-different profiles will come.


    I agree. If and when there ever is a successor to the Kemper (Kemper 2?), I imagine that it will have Dual amps/FX/Cabinets signal chain, with the capability to morph the amp modules, and perhaps even between the dual FX and Cabinet modules.


    However, at the end of the day, I would be curious as to how many users of Axe-FX or Helix platforms actually take regular advantage of the Dual signal path feature.


    Cheers,
    John

    Personally, I think that there are endless possibilities but ......I would like the ability to upgrade the main processor without having to change the whole unit.


    That way , every few years you could put in a new motherboard to keep up with the latest software developments ( e.g. - Bi-amping / Tri-amping, effects , new ways of profiling etc... ).


    A simple slot with a slide in slide out mechanism could work maybe so the installation could be done by the user.

    I've already though about that: the ability to profile several settings to make a better "copy" of an amp. But for a simple amp with gain, bass, mid, trebble and presence control, and by taking just 5 positions for all controls, that leads to 3125 profiles ... Try to imagine a Mesa Mark V : without EQ and power limitation : there are 468750 profiles PER CHANNEL !


    The fact is the amps have there sweet spots and the actual way to work : capturing several sweet spots and slightly adjusting them with the kemper tone stack is finally not so far that the real thing

    There are only so many different tube amp tonestacks and I don't think that we need to take 1000's of profiles to simulate them.
    I'd take a similar approach to the amp profiling in the KPA where the KPA inherently "knows" how a tube amp works and what signals it needs to send to the amp to analyze it.
    With passive EQs where the bands interact, I believe that a few smartly designed EQ-sweeps are enough to tell that base tonestack-model how to react like the amp in question.


    Unfortunately, this would make the whole profiling process more advanced, because precise user interaction - e.g. turning bass, mid, treble, presence knobs exactly the way they should be turned during the processs - is required.