Kemper high end and fizz

  • I've had the Kemper for a bit and so far it's been a mixed bag for me due to only using commercial profiles and some from the rig exchange.


    My issue is that in most mid to high gain profiles I've used, there's been this static high end fizz. I've tried eqing it out but this usually resulted in a neutered guitar tone. I thought this was normal for the unit until I recently profiled my Jet City 22h to A/B and the Kemper imparted the same exaggerated high end fizz. On the higher gain profiles it sounds like 2 pieces of paper being rubbed back and forth over the guitar tone.


    Here's the Jet City profiled at mid gain. 1.Kemper Mix 2. Amp Mix 3. Kemper Solo 4. Amp Solo


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    Kemper Mix/Amp Mix/Kemper Solo/Amp Solo


    In the example I notice the kemper tone is less dynamic and doesn't fit in the mix quite as well as the amp. The whistling frequencies become more noticeable and the upper mids take on more of an congested wah sound.



    Does the Kemper do this with every distorted profile or is there a problem with my unit?

  • I don't think there's anything defective with your unit, no :)

  • Nope, it's something that drives me crazy and is all over the place. I've bought a number of commercial packs where I kept zero profiles because they all suffered one issue or another that repeatedly haunt the Kemper (to my ears). Some guys are good at using equipment to minimize this, but rarely.

  • In the early days ( 2013-ish ) a studio owner / session player friend borrowed the KPA and complained about that on gain profiles.


    I think its something that has improved a bit over time though.


    This has been always been a problem with all modellers / processed sounds at higher frequencies.

  • On my end I have submitted many files to kemper to evaluate this, and they forwarded everything to developer team, even last batch where I profiled a pod xt to showcase something very particular. Which is great and I appreciate it highly.


    But to me, without trying to stir up any debate (god no, god no), first one sounds like KPA version of your amp, second sounds like your amp. I know the amp fairly well. I have modded a few of these amps (and they are amazing for that). Profile and amp are close, like kemper most often is, but the differences are the usual ones many of us are well aware of. There are also people who hear all this but think the differences are trivial and meaningless, which is ok.


    And yes, I can also hear this in many commercial profiles. If you profile a tone that has very little of these frequencies to begin with it's harder to hear, of course, unless A/B testing. But this doesn't speak too much on the accuracy of the profiling session.


    Also, it takes a lot of experimenting, in my opinion, to try and minimize these differences. Some assume it must be easy to do with post-profiling controls. I don't find that to be true. I think your focus should be, as much as possible, in getting the tone right to begin with. Experimenting with different refining methods is very important for this and it depends on a lot of factors. There have been times when I have spend 3-4 hours to get a single profile done (well, more, actually, more a like a full day before I got more experienced with this). Firmware updates may improve this further, but as things stand, you'll need to put some work in to get things closer, to the extend it is possible, in my experience.


    I could possibly also help out if I have some more information on how you refined here :) But I prefer to do that privately, because similar threads have turned into shit-storms quite quickly, with "otherizing" left and right.


    Anyway, cheerios

    Edited 7 times, last by Dimi84 ().

  • Some will point out that fizz occurs on recorded amps and that the Kemper is precisely a recorded amp tone (amp, cab, mic). I think cab and mic'ing have a lot to do with this issue, but I hear it in close to every high gain profile I've tried so it has to also be internal. Plenty that escape the fizz suffer other issues that render it unusable to me, whether the profile is flat with no dynamics or they scale back on the presence and turn it into a dark, muffled profile (I'm looking at you, TopJimi).


    Basically, I've grown to be more tortured than satisfied. I feel the same as Fluff, who used to have a Kemper and even shared his own Kemper profiles. He told me he was "always 85% happy with it".

  • @space_song , Yep, same observations and sentiments here. Same thing happened to me, very first day - right away I felt the KPA didn't sound natural. Rasp, congestion something bizarre going on in the mid/upper register that makes it sound not quite "real" IMO. Kemper is now very aware of this issue and the engineering team is looking at it. Anyway, for live purposes or just hobbying around at home it is apparently fine for many people. But for those with a good ear or serious recording applications it can be maddening at times. Hopefully we'll have a fix for these tone issue in the not too distant future...


    BTW, welcome.


    Sonic

  • Welcome! It's a very interesting point on the fizz and as time goes on (I've had a kemper for about 4 years now) I notice this and some phasey aspects to some high gain profiles.


    What would be an amazing post imo would be if those who've been down the long road of finding a few profiles that don't exhibit any of this behaviour could make a list of them.


    That way those of us who are more hobbyists or just don't have the time to scroll through loads of profiles could really benefit. I remember @SonicExporer mentioned a couple in one of his threads a while back. I think it was a merged jcm 800 profile but can't remember which.


    Anyway good luck OP!

  • Welcome. I certainly find some hi gain profiles exhibiting harshness, phase issues or at least some awkwardness. Fortunately I am not into metal and use them much less than some others here. And the truth I don't always like the original high gain sound from the real amp.

    Never too old for rock'n'roll

  • Welcome. I certainly find some hi gain profiles exhibiting harshness, phase issues or at least some awkwardness. Fortunately I am not into metal and use them much less than some others here. And the truth I don't always like the original high gain sound from the real amp.

    I struggle with that more when profiling vintage tones than full on metal ones perhaps. Maybe because I tend to play in a more nuanced way when it comes to the vintage tones and pay more attention to detail.

  • I struggle with that more when profiling vintage tones than full on metal ones perhaps. Maybe because I tend to play in a more nuanced way when it comes to the vintage tones and pay more attention to detail.

    I think some Fender, Morgan, Dumble, Dr Z and Marshall (to name some obvious choices) profiles that are cleanish/tad overdriven sound really good and have dynamics enough for blues playing, which is nuance and feel above all. At the same time, some vintage-amp-style profiles don't make it because they sound too dull/harsh and/or flat. The Kemper is very close to a real amp more often than not, but it sure struggles sometimes. After all, not all amps are created equal (players neither)!. I have played Pods (2 rack versions), Vox ToneLab, Digitech preamps and an Ax Ultra, and the Kember beats them all for certain. A work in progress?

    Never too old for rock'n'roll

  • I'm not talking above about profiles themselves so much in isolation but in comparison to the amp tone. There are many great profiles that have the mentioned differences and are still great (even though I prefer the real amps). I just used a sinmix profile for this cover, and quite a few tell me they prefer the tone itself to the original recording --


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    About kemper vs other stuff -- I even think even S gear 2 has top of the line modelling. Their marshall is top, simply put. I don't think kemper is the only game in town. Axe fx 2 is also brilliant if you know how to dial it in the right way and provides tremendous creative control... and torpedo, also great. What one thinks is "better" is an evaluative judgement based on highly personal criteria.


    In regards to the other devices you mention (such as the vox) I overall prefer kemper, of course. But just like anything there can be progress, which is often met with resistance, partly, just like you saw with some tube "purists" when kemper came out. I put more work when it comes to kemper testing and suggestions than many other such units, because I largely subscribe to the idea, the concept behind the KPA.


    In to the issue in the thread: yeap, your unit is fine, but how do you refine?

    Edited 4 times, last by Dimi84 ().

  • It's a very interesting point on the fizz and as time goes on (I've had a kemper for about 4 years now) I notice this and some phasey aspects to some high gain profiles.


    What would be an amazing post imo would be if those who've been down the long road of finding a few profiles that don't exhibit any of this behaviour could make a list of them.


    That way those of us who are more hobbyists or just don't have the time to scroll through loads of profiles could really benefit.

    I think it would be great if there was a list of mid/high gain profiles that didn't exhibit the issues. Not just for hobbyists but for everybody. Unfortunately at this point it is becoming increasingly apparent any such list could end up blank. I don't know who would even decide what makes the list. Maybe another way would be to have some new area on the forum where a consistent example is provided by anybody who wants to offer up a profile sample (always done using a consistent reamp).. So users can hear and decide for themselves if the issues exist and whether or not they want to use the profile. Dimi already created some good reamp baselines that demonstrate the issues well. Which could be the first entry - "Use this clip for reamp" Or maybe we should just give Kemper some space to fix the problem(s) first.


    Here's my concern about the reality of what I suspect would happen.... If we start a post that tracks the tone issues among profiles and it inevitably (IMO) demonstrates just how wide-spread the issue really is, it may well only end up hurting Kemper. Think about how the fans of the competition may react (or maybe even other KPA owners). They could easily take the same reamp clip and demonstrate how other products sound - tone without the degree of raspy/phasey, congested aspects from the KPA.


    So yeah, it's a valid and interesting prospect to start some kind of list/post to help us sift through the profiles in attempts to help users find something that doesn't exhibit the tone issues. But in reality it seems like opening a huge can of worms.


    Anyway, just sharing thoughts off the top of my head FWIW. No great revelation to offer at the moment. For now just hoping that Kemper can address the issues because, just like Dimi, I am fond of the concept behind the KPA and really want to be able to utilize it.


    Sonic

  • Thanks for all the welcomes everyone.


    I'm kinda at a loss right now. I thought I was crazy or had a defective unit since I couldn't find any mid gain rock profiles that could handle big chords strummed at 16th notes that didn't exhibit static noise build up. Once the tone is double tracked and heard with cymbals the noise sticks quite a bit.


    Profiling my own rig alleviated some of the noise I was hearing in other profiles, but the problem with dynamic frequencies is still there.

  • Thanks for all the welcomes everyone.


    I'm kinda at a loss right now. I thought I was crazy or had a defective unit since I couldn't find any mid gain rock profiles that could handle big chords strummed at 16th notes that didn't exhibit static noise build up. Once the tone is double tracked and heard with cymbals the noise sticks quite a bit.


    Profiling my own rig alleviated some of the noise I was hearing in other profiles, but the problem with dynamic frequencies is still there.

    I text you with a few refining tips that could possibly help. I spend a lot of time when I profile doing different things like some described to get closer. It's just difficult to produce a "manual" for it, because it depends on too many variables, probably many I'm not even aware of. So there's quite a bit of "trial and error" involved.


    Cheerios

    Edited 2 times, last by Dimi84 ().

  • Thanks for all the welcomes everyone.


    I'm kinda at a loss right now. I thought I was crazy or had a defective unit since I couldn't find any mid gain rock profiles that could handle big chords strummed at 16th notes that didn't exhibit static noise build up. Once the tone is double tracked and heard with cymbals the noise sticks quite a bit.


    Profiling my own rig alleviated some of the noise I was hearing in other profiles, but the problem with dynamic frequencies is still there.

    Yep, again exactly as I observed and commented when I first got the unit. Not sure what to recommend at this point other than just hang tight for a bit and let's see what comes back from Kemper....hopefully sooner rather than later.