What am I doing wrong?

    Ok…slightly long post alert. I need you guys to tell me what I’m doing wrong. First of all, now that I’ve eliminated 98% of that noise – the Kemper sounds just fantastic. I have a high gain tone – 80’s metal tone that I absolutely love – and while I have no idea how it might sit in a live setting – sitting in front of my computer monitors (AX7) and FRFR Cab – it sounds great. To me at least. It also feels great which is massively important.


    Here’s my struggle. I can’t seem to find that feel with any other profiles of any kind. I’ve spent over $100 already on the professional profiles – including MBritt and others. They all have sounds that I think are very good – but none have the feel. What am I doing wrong? Is it a volume thing? I do note that the profile I keep coming back to seems louder than all of the others by comparison – but even at low volumes it has that “feel” I’m looking for. That string/pick interaction and bite/punch I expect from a tube amp. Don’t know if I’m able to adequately describe what I mean but I’m sure you guys understand. I know I’m doing something wrong – but I don’t know what it is. Granted – I’m still as noob as noob gets with the Kemper. I haven’t graduated out of browser mode yet – largely because I’m just focusing on practicing since my seat time is so limited these days.


    Did any of you guys run into this? The profile I’m using that I keep returning to is a George_Alayson patch. I’ve spent $$$ on profiles and his was free and it’s just fantastic.


    I do plan at some point to profile my Bogner 101B, JVM, and Hughes and Kettner Mk II once I’ve mastered the basics of this amp. Just frustrated that I can’t seem to get the same wow factor you guys are from some of these other profiles. No doubt whatsoever it’s user inexperience and error – just need some advice.

    Thanks for the advice and that link. I had found that thread when I was originally researching Kemper months ago - and had actually left it open so I could come back to it later. Of course the browser crashed and I completely forgot about it. When I went to look for it recently I couldn't come up with any good search terms. I will watch that video this evening and experiment.


    Will also try tweaking some of the parameters advised above.


    You also wonder if I can figure out how to best normalize the volume across profiles better - if that will change things. The manual says not to use the rig volume but that seems like the easiest approach.

    to me, lower gain and clean tones needs more volume, to feel good, to me. It actually sounds and feels better on headphones than low monitor volume. I feel the same way on tube amps, though. The Kemper is the first thing I've tried that sounds good on headphones.

    How have you been monitoring your playing up until now? Was it through a guitar cab? And do you have experience in regards to how tube amps "feel" when all you hear is the miced up tone?


    Cheerios

    I think it's just the difference between the "amp in the room" sound and the "studio" sound. If you took one of your tube amps and cranked it in an isolation booth you'd get the same lack of feel.


    Do you have the powered Kemper? If so, you should consider a merged profile with the direct sound going to one of your existing cabinets as a monitor. That way you can turn it up until the feel is right.

    I appreciate all the responses - i really do.


    Quote from Dimi84


    How have you been monitoring your playing up until now? Was it through a guitar cab? And do you have experience in regards to how tube amps "feel" when all you hear is the miced up tone?

    In all honesty - I have probably not powered up one of my heads in over 5 years. All my gear has been collecting dust - something I'm working to change now. I was playing the Axe-Fx II prior to the Kemper - with a similar complaint - along with the fact that I just don't want to tweak a thousand parameters. Back when I was playing - primarily everything was amp in the room - and while i did mic my amps - it was just for recording purposes and not done in isolation. So - no is the answer to your question. I don't have real experience with that - although I will say that my younger brother is a professional musician - he plays bass - but the guitarist in their band - a nationally known band was telling me he plays everything now through an iso cab. BAsically a box with a mic - and it sounds fantastic - and seems to maintain all of that punch and bite. Tough to say as I've never played through his rig.



    Quote from Finally


    Do you have the powered Kemper? If so, you should consider a merged profile with the direct sound going to one of your existing cabinets as a monitor. That way you can turn it up until the feel is right.

    I do have a powered Kemper - and yes - I need to try that again. I haven't tried that since fixing that noise problem. That noise problem made everything horrible. I was just hoping someone would say - yes - I thought the same - but then I did this...and the light went on. I'd be happy to upload the high gain profile I've been using - I think it's just fantastic. I tweaked it only ever so slightly - maybe there are some conclusions someone can draw from that - compared to other profiles?


    Admittedly - I have a lot to learn and experiment with still.

    Can you describe your setup again? You have written that you use monitors and an frfrf and you have a powerde kpa. What kind of frfr do you use?
    Please describe you signal chain f.e.
    Global pure cab of, main outs left/ right to studio monitors with cab sim on
    Monitor out with cab sim of to a real cab?
    Monitor out with cab sim on to an unpowered frfr?
    Main out to a powerde frfr?


    I use an unpowered kpa to powered rookit rp6 g3 monitors ( main outs) and monitor out to a powerded rcf sma 10" with cab sim on and i have very good results. I use the same rigs for bedroom and live level.


    You can hear soundexamples on my soundcloud, if you like use the soundcloud link below and have a listen.


    Cheers
    Frank

    So - I'll do my best - and if I left something out - ask again. Powered KPA but right now I'm just running it Monitor Out to my RCF NX 12-SM FRFR. This was all the rage when Axe FX was cutting it's teeth. I can't comment on how it compares to anything else - but it wasn't cheap - for whatever that might be worth. Right now I'm running just the left main out XLR into my new Apollo|Twin - and then right/left out to my Adam A7X monitors - desktop only - no sub. Like I said - the sounds are nice - and if I record them they're great and I have this one patch/profile that I think is just freaking killer. I did a little iPhone video for my brother yesterday - maybe I'll load it here. It even sounds good there. What I'm wanting to find is that same touch/feel/punch/bite - whatever the right words are - that I get from that profile on some others. High gain/low gain/clean. I know it's something I'm not doing right - most on this forum are far more experienced and better players than I - so I have no doubt it's this user's error - I just want to remedy that.


    Cab sims are always on. The RCF is a powered/amplified FRFR. I keep it on its side - meaning...not on it's angled side - but the flat side so I hear it off axis. Tonally - it matches what's coming out of my monitors very well - +/- some bass just due to speaker size and cabinet size. I will definitely check out your soundcloud. I do a lot of checking out other people's tones lately - quite often it makes me question why I'm picking up my guitars again. I have to keep reminding myself that it's not a competition. :P:/

    Quote from EightmanVT

    Some kick ass tones and tracks and playing there.

    If you mean my soundcloud, thx Sir.
    These examples are mostly done with commercial profiles.
    I am not so familar with the apollo twin, but what i see is you are using only one main out out to feed it, so you miss the stereo effect. As i have written, i also play an rcf frfr on stage ( and sometimes at home, when my wife is not there :D ). I got cool results with nearly the same equipment than yours. So the only thing is that i can write down my signal chain that you have something to compare.


    Kemper input sense: Factory preset, all at 0
    Outputsection: Main out - Master stereo
    Monitor our - Master mono
    global space - 3.0
    Main eq linear
    Monitor eq linear
    Global pure cab off
    Output preset all linear
    Cab sim is on


    Main out left and right xlr to trs cable fom kpa to the input of my behringer 12 channel mixer
    Mixer main outs left/ right to the left/ right inputs of my steinberg 242 interface.
    Steinberg outs left to my left powered monitor, right to my right powered monitor.
    Steinberg interface via usb to my laptop.
    Steinberg mixing software on my laptop panning left channel to 100% left and right channel to 100% right to get it stereo.


    Rcf monitor: I use if as a floor monitor with nearfield knob on.


    Be sure that all parameters in a softwaremixer are linear.


    I use a behringer mixer between kpa an interface because i also feed the mixer with other devices like an i pad or the headphone out from my laptop, so i can controll backing tracks for recording directly with the mixer.


    Thats all.


    If a sound of a rig is nearly ok for with a first short view, i tweak it a little fir my taste.
    My friends are:
    Amp section parameters
    Changing the cab to my beloved cabs from sinmix or tonehammer
    Lead booster in slot b or c with factory parameters, i change only the boost to prox. + 2,5
    An eq in slot x with a cut to 6000 and 8000 hz


    Cheers
    Frank

    Uhm - Hell Yes - definitely your soundcloud. Some really nice playing!!!!!! =O8o You've given me a lot to chew on - I'll spend the next few days - and especially the weekend tackling this - along with the advice provided above and report back. Connecting the right side for stereo is an easy fix - but that will just get me stereo in the monitors - but I guess it should give me a feel for what the PA will get should I ever find myself ready for that kind of craziness again. Is there anything harder than finding like minded people that want to play the same things you do?? hehe. I'll worry about that later. I really appreciate the effort it takes to set aside the time to provide this kind of advice and guidance. Greatly appreciated.

    One other factor to not under estimate....psychology...


    I kept telling myself the Kemper is digital and therefore no feel etc. Now I just stop worrying about it.


    Just a thought...

    Not sure that this is the case here, but many problems with cleans/low gain being "lifeless" come from playing at low volume. I know it's digital and what not, but if you can hear your guitar acoustically while playing, the volume is too low, way too low. Crank it up and enjoy life! :). Digital or not, it needs to move air, otherwise we shouldn't expect miracles. Blow on your string and see if you get feedback - if yes, the volume is right :)


    p.s. I hate headphones and would never monitor through ones, so I can't comment on this unbiased.

    Quote from mdeeRocks

    Not sure that this is the case here, but many problems with cleans/low gain being "lifeless" come from playing at low volume. I know it's digital and what not, but if you can hear your guitar acoustically while playing, the volume is too low, way too low. Crank it up and enjoy life! :). Digital or not, it needs to move air, otherwise we shouldn't expect miracles. Blow on your string and see if you get feedback - if yes, the volume is right :)


    p.s. I hate headphones and would never monitor through ones, so I can't comment on this unbiased.

    I actually like to sound of the cleans through decent headphones, and I've never liked guitar through headphones on anything.


    I'm not fully happy with any cleans on the Kemper or any amp I've played unless it is loud enough to make the speakers move a little. I can do this at lower volume with the Kemper and small monitors than I can with a single or multiple 12 inch speakers in a cab or combo.

    I don't play through headphones - I do think that some of it might be volume related. I need to get better at just tweaking the Kemper - and understanding how to level out the profiles - that will help me compare.


    It's not psychological - at least not this particular issue, possibly others - because I do have at least one profile that I think is just flat out awesome. Back in the early days of Vetta I used to think it sounded great through headphones. I'm a believer in playing at decent volume because it exposes mistakes - I just need to figure out how to get these profiles on the same level - i think that will help in the evaluation. I have a lot to try just from the suggestions provided - planning to tackle a lot tomorrow - assuming the wife get's the memo. :)