New Kemper Owner- Not too impressed, useable

  • It doesn't solve any problems in tone, it solves the problem in your head.


    It's only tiresome if you don't like the idea of putting in a little effort, or dislike something that breaks the narrative you have going on.


    Go do it first, then come back and talk about what you "hear". Otherwise it's just uninformed gibberish filling up the forums. The Kemper has faults believe me, but it's more useful to actually know what they actually are than to bark at the moon.

    Man, you spooked me. I was actually rehearsing this for last 30 minutes or so, need to play it tomorrow :)


    OP, do profile your own amp and see for yourself, its really good fun and will give you a lot of answers immediately. Otherwise, I think Royer and a 57 would be good idea, assuming you can rent a room/preamps for the remaining 600. The deal with profiles is that they carry engineer sound (very faithfully) first and foremost. You may like it or not.

  • Let me out it another way. If you haven't compared the sound of the actual amp on record to the profile then you're just basing your judgements off of assumptions and some other engineers ideas about what good amp tone might be.


    It's not your fault, I mean how could you know what it's meant to sound or react like? It would be impossible to do that. It is however your fault for having the option and choosing to not do this, then feeling the need to opine without experience. You lack the point of reference to make assertions about how accurate the Kemper is or is not.


    You can of course say you don't like a tone, but so what? What's that got to do with how well the Kemper does its job? Thats like me saying I don't like the guitar tone in a Johnny Cash record, it's all twangy, too much mids and got no sustain, therefore it's the fault of the tape or vinyl which must be doing a bad job of reproducing what the microphone heard.

    I'm assuming this is directed at me, and if so, it is just more baseless noise and fabricated statements, along with some of the other few KPA cult members on the forum who continue to distract, divert, etc.


    I have profiled a number of times and compared the KPA to tracks done with that same setup direct from amp. The KPA has the same problems - the very same tonal shortcomings repeatedly discussed - that are rasp, congestion, thin notes and generally un-natural sounding tone/gain in comparison to a real amp. It varies depending on circumstance, sometimes almost close other times terrible Same results confirmed by Dimi, by Sinimx, and many other customers who continue to come onto this forum and raise the very same concerns. And as have some commercial profile makers I've spoke to off the record, as well as highly respected associates of mine in the industry.


    I don't know what your intention is, but it certainly doesn't appear interested in helping the KPA meet up to it's marketing hype. Some of us wish to see the KPA improved rather than continue to frustrate current and future customers.


    Sonic

  • Man, you spooked me. I was actually rehearsing this for last 30 minutes or so, need to play it tomorrow :)
    OP, do profile your own amp and see for yourself, its really good fun and will give you a lot of answers immediately. Otherwise, I think Royer and a 57 would be good idea, assuming you can rent a room/preamps for the remaining 600. The deal with profiles is that they carry engineer sound (very faithfully) first and foremost. You may like it or not.

    Good song! :D

  • I'm assuming this is directed at me, and if so, it is just more baseless noise and fabricated statements, along with some of the other few KPA cult members on the forum who continue to distract, divert, etc.
    I have profiled a number of times and compared the KPA to tracks done with that same setup direct from amp. The KPA has the same problems - the very same tonal shortcomings repeatedly discussed - that are rasp, congestion, thin notes and generally un-natural sounding tone/gain in comparison to a real amp. It varies depending on circumstance, sometimes almost close other times terrible Same results confirmed by Dimi, by Sinimx, and many other customers who continue to come onto this forum and raise the very same concerns. And as have some commercial profile makers I've spoke to off the record, as well as highly respected associates of mine in the industry.


    I don't know what your intention is, but it certainly doesn't appear interested in helping the KPA meet up to it's marketing hype. Some of us wish to see the KPA improved rather than continue to frustrate current and future customers.


    Sonic

    Sure it's directed at you if you want. Though actually the previous post was directed at you, the next one was an explanation of why it's not some "tiresome" thing.


    You seek to hijack every thread because as I recall your golden ears believe that a Pod 2.0 is better than a Kemper at sounding like your amps. You must have some damn shitty amps in dire need of service is all I can say.


    You're fast becoming a troll. When you were posting about your specific experiences then it made sense, I was bang along side supporting you and trying to help you either resolve your issues or get Kemper to fix their shit. Now though you're just polluting. The OP has said nothing to indicate that he encounters your personal issues, for you it's a crusade to wheedle your way into every thread and jump up and down with faux indignation, then call other people trolls for trying to un-hijack the threads and help each other get the most out of their purchase. Which is not some cheap little thing.


    @Mods can we have a sticky at the top of the forums that reads "SAVE TIME : Sonic thinks the Pod 2.0 sounds better than the Kemper and doesn't want any help, just attention". Because honestly you're a damn toxin on the forum at this point. I want the Kemper to be better than it is, but you're going about it in the most obnoxious wrong headed way possible, the way that makes me think "Hey this guy doesn't want what I want at all, he doesn't actually want the Kemper to be better, he just wants to vent his spleen. He just might actually want the Kemper to be worse so that he has some form of validation".

  • To be fair, the OP did respond to @SonicExporer with the following..


    "EXACTLY what i'm hearing and trying to describe, thank you for finding the right words The thin and phases sound is spot on. Funny thing: My wife heard it too, she's not a musician, but even she heard there is something odd sounding."

  • Guys, thanks for all your replies- some valid points from either side. Ultimately, for me the most important thing is how it sounds. And that pat hasn't convinced me. I'm going to profile my own amp to really be able to A/B between them. But i'm afraid i'm gonna hear the same thing that bugging me on all the other profiles, but who knows it could be an a ha moment

  • Guys, thanks for all your replies- some valid points from either side. Ultimately, for me the most important thing is how it sounds. And that pat hasn't convinced me. I'm going to profile my own amp to really be able to A/B between them. But i'm afraid i'm gonna hear the same thing that bugging me on all the other profiles, but who knows it could be an a ha moment

    I would say just make sure you can hear both amp and kemper through good, clear monitoring so that you can make a good judgement. I usually use great headphones for these tests, but have good monitors as well, and swap between the two.


    If you hear the same as other profiles, well, it's probably indeed what some of us struggle with too. If not, and you are happy with the profile, great, I will be glad for you :)


    Cheerios

  • Go to ANY major digital amp manufacturer's sponsored web forum, and you will find the following:


    A) A group of satisfied owner's, typically representing the majority of the community, who discuss technical and creative aspects of their musical device, and share helpful information, tips and solutions to both new users as well as to the experienced veterans.


    B) A small group of users who may have specific issues or areas of personal dissatisfaction, yet make positive contributions to the community by personally reproducing specific examples (highlighting their perceived complaints) and submitting their work to the attention of the community -- and most importantly the manufacturer.
    This entails personal effort, work and due diligence.


    C) A handful of personalities and detractors who seem to have some sort of agenda, and spend their time making negative comments and posts. This can be readily seen by reviewing their post history. Rarely, if ever, will you see these individuals involved in threads helping or answering questions for new users. Nor, do they seem to ever have any constructive advice to offer -- just a steady stream of deconstructive rhetoric. Make no mistake, it is wonderful that this manufacturer-sponsored forum allows the free exchange of ideas and opinions. Nevertheless, one still has to question why anyone would so stubbornly continue ownership of a product they so vocally dislike...especially when there exist worthy alternatives and solutions in the digital amp category (not to mention tube amps). In the sphere of human relationships -- this would be considered an abusive relationship.

  • For those reality-impaired individuals who can't read and continue to make personal attacks and propagate falsehoods, I never said in a broad context the POD was better than KPA (or vice-versa). What I did say IIRC is that I can get some better tones with a POD 2.0 in the signal chain which the KPA can not simply achieve based on everything I've heard and tried (which is a lot). Namely clarity and the proper upper midrange found in Marshall sytyle amps. A good analog pedal in front of the right settings on a POD 2.0 will get superior tones for certain styles, and especially on solo tones, rather than the raspy, congested gain structure the KPA will too often impose. By itself the POD has a more digital fizzy gain to it, but if you dial that back considerably and use a good analog pedal on the front end, the end result is often pretty decent. Feel is not good, flexibility is not so great and tone shaping options are very limited. But core tone is tolerable. Not so with KPA for too many instances for certain tones & styles. And putting the same pedal in front of the KPA doesn't help matters much. Which shouldn't be necessary anyway with a $2,0000 device claiming to be able to replicate and sound like a real amp. A $200 POD sure, but not a KPA.


    OP, please post back after you have profiled and let us know if it did much worthwhile to fix the tone shortcomings you are hearing.


    Sonic

  • .....
    This isn't about not willing to accept digital or something because i already bought the thing.


    Please tell me your thoughts on this and any tips or ideas, thanks guys!

    The same thing happened to me the first day I tried the Kemper and I didn't realize the power until the next day when I started profiling my amps and realizing how scarily close the Kemper sounded and felt. The first day couldn't understand what the hoopla was about and what every body was talking about, but I couldn't argue with the great results others got. I said to myself, if others are making it work, then why not me. I decided to give it a serious attempt.


    I think what happens is that we all come with so much expectations above and beyond what the reality is. The sound coming from a mic in front of a tube amp will not always mean that as soon as you hear, angles will sing and rainbows will appear etc. The magic comes in a different form and there need to be some effort to make that magic happen. Think about it, on the surface, what's really magical about the sound of a miced tube amp.


    My advice, give it at least a week, try different profiles and play around with it. It's so damn close to the real thing that it will save you from the hassle of using microphones forever and you won't be sacrificing much if any.

  • There will definitely be people affiliated with other equipment and/or software companies that "work" their opposition forums. While I agree that it's important to have a balanced view of what the Kemper does, the hidden agendas can take the joy out of a forum if you let them.

  • I think it's probably a good idea to be more specific about your musical style here too. I've been in a few threads with people unhappy about this frequency or low end muddiness etc, but it's usually heavy distorted stuff which is alien to me and to be honest all sounds the same to me. I bow out of those conversations as soon as I realise I'm in someone else's world, but it would be good to know up front. :)

  • The same thing happened to me the first day I tried the Kemper and I didn't realize the power until the next day when I started profiling my amps and realizing how scarily close the Kemper sounded and felt. The first day couldn't understand what the hoopla was about and what every body was talking about, but I couldn't argue with the great results others got. I said to myself, if others are making it work, then why not me. I decided to give it a serious attempt.
    I think what happens is that we all come with so much expectations above and beyond what the reality is. The sound coming from a mic in front of a tube amp will not always mean that as soon as you hear, angles will sing and rainbows will appear etc. The magic comes in a different form and there need to be some effort to make that magic happen. Think about it, on the surface, what's really magical about the sound of a miced tube amp.


    My advice, give it at least a week, try different profiles and play around with it. It's so damn close to the real thing that it will save you from the hassle of using microphones forever and you won't be sacrificing much if any.

    Valid opinion when it comes to people who are not familiar with what a mic'ed tube amp sounds like. In these instances profiling your own amp can potentially be eye-opening. And either way it is neat to see the KPA work, the whole premise of profiling is really cool. However, the tonal result too often has issues in the gain realm, as has been demonstrated and experienced. Based on tonal results alone, IMO the KPA is more akin to a self-configuring modeler than an actual ground-up profiler. Just like the POD or other modelers have a unique tone signature baseline, so does the KPA. But it also extends into the gain/dist structure. Tremendous potential if this can be fixed, or at least greatly improved.

  • There will definitely be people affiliated with other equipment and/or software companies that "work" their opposition forums. While I agree that it's important to have a balanced view of what the Kemper does, the hidden agendas can take the joy out of a forum if you let them.


    +1
    all very good points, all these four groups of users are seen on forums.
    Big kudos to the kemper team for actually allowing users with a super clear agenda that over and over repeat their same passive aggressive negaitve mantra in thread after thread. Imagine how short the login-time would be for a user who joins the fractal forum and from the very beginning insinuates the company is unprofessional, and numerous times says how the product only is ok for demos but not for professional use (despite the fact that thousands of world pros use it live and on records), and repeatedly calling other users trolls or clan members and insinuates that a conspiracy makes sure that no critique is allowed against the product. Such repeated passive aggressive posting behaviour is a form of trolling by spamming, bringing nothing constructive to threads and often derailing them.
    Can anyone link to the kemper forum rules so I can read them, thanks.
    On TheGearPage there are rules against repeated spamming. I wouldn't mind that here.



    Back on topic.
    future2future, I noticed your crosspost on the gearpage forum. Just make sure you follow all steps and it shouldn't be any problem making good profiles. There are plenty of tutorials online and don't forget to download the full user manual pdf on the kemper home page + additional free rig packs.
    https://www.kemper-amps.com/downloads


    Kemper Amps Profiling Demonstration Live on Air with John Huldt

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  • .... the whole premise of profiling is really cool. However, the tonal result too often has issues in the gain realm, as has been demonstrated and experienced.....

    The Gain realm in the Kemper is known or should be known to any one before they even purchase the Kemper. It's a known fact but not really an issue. It's rather an advantage.


    The gain is accurate at the initial profile, but the Kemper Gain Knob is so transparent even though it never guarantees that when you change that Gain knob it will be accurate to the actual amp.


    This can be thought of as a very positive thing that adds extremely more power to the Kemper. If you start with an extremely Saturated high gain monster, the default gain knob will likely be close to 10 which will be most accurate to the actual amp at that specific setting. Now if you lower the gain knob at the Kemper, you will end up with a clean sound that won't resemble what the real amp would sound like if you do that with the real amp.


    Some of my favorite clean sounds on the Kemper come from exactly doing that lowering the gain on a high gain profile. Try it out, you might be pleasantly surprised.


    Another very powerful feature in the Kemper is the compressor in the AMP Menu (not the regular compressor). Add a little and play with your guitar volume control and the sound becomes cleaner but it retains the volume. Absolutely brilliant for those whole like to get different tones just from messing with the guitar volume knob to get clean sound.


    There are some profiles that I use where rolling the volume knob will bring you from high gain to beautiful clean while retaining almost similar volume. Real good tube amps have a similar response but the Kemper does this brilliantly well. The dynamic range of tones become ridiculously varied just from playing with the volume knob. At the same time how hard or soft you hit the string also varies the tone. From my experience nothing accomplishes this better than the Kemper. Try it out.

  • Guys, thanks for all your replies- some valid points from either side. Ultimately, for me the most important thing is how it sounds. And that pat hasn't convinced me. I'm going to profile my own amp to really be able to A/B between them. But i'm afraid i'm gonna hear the same thing that bugging me on all the other profiles, but who knows it could be an a ha moment

    This is spot on!
    The profile itself has to sound great....instead of trying to improve a phasy-profile (or a thinsounding-profile) with the Kemper internal filters.


    You can profile your own amp(s), the way you want it and therefor are profiles a reproduction of a personal amp recording taste.
    Personally, I think this is Kempers strongest thing.

    Edited 3 times, last by Lex81 ().

  • @future2future


    i can understand your frustration and i recommend the following thing:


    use real overdrives and boosters in front of the kemper (that also works for the axe fx and so on very well)
    + when profiling i found for my taste a sweetspot, the kemper always tends to let more of the pick trough
    and will not compress as much as some amps does... and if you profile a ac30 for example DI you will find out that ther is always a point, when it come to
    power amp saturation at which the kemper will not get his informations properly beause the signal gets too muddy now lower the volume slightly and look how it works out
    and do that till you find the spot at which it works well...
    + when it comes to gain also try making maximum gain profiles, because the kemper cleans up well wenn you need less gain later but adding gain on the kemper is always a bit strange
    a side effect is that the higher kompression in max gain and the fuller feel ...


    that is at least what i doto kompensate the flaws of the kemper ... and well it really helps making DI profiles sometimes :)


    do you still have the kemper ?