KPA sounds flat and thin during rehersal. What am I doing wrong?

  • Getting some "live proof" profiles like Bert meulendijks is good advice.
    Also, using frfr, at least to me, is a compromise.
    I use the KPA with cab Sims off...run it through a tube amp for my monitor sound.
    Feeding FOH with a cab sim signal is offcourse gonna work with the KPA.

  • Hi Netheravon, question from a novice: do you use a Kemper head or ''powerhead'' with your DXR-10 ? ThanksPS: Same question to BasemenBluesBoy is it a Kemper head or powerhead? Maybe you need a powerhead...???? Just curious THANKS EVERYONE

    I have the Kemper and not the powerhead.


    Yesterday I experimented a little with DI-Profiles of the Pre-Amp section and DI-Files of the full amp. I starten with H&K Tubemeister 18 with 1W to get some distortion at a reasonable volume.


    I ran these profiles thru the Marshall poweramp EL 84 20/20 into a Marshall cabinet Vintage 1936. unfortunately the sounds did not convince me als I was looking for a decent live sound when giging smaller venues for which you do not need a PA.


    To me the distorted sounds were harsh, brittle and not the same as a good tube amp. EQ could not help. To me it seems the Kemper is a nice toy for the studio, but it can not replace a good tube amp in smaller venues. In such a situation I will play my tube amps. In a scenario where the amp is miked it might be a different story. I will test that with our L' Accoustic PA. Hopefully, I can use the Kemper for this otherwise I might be thinking about returning the Kemper, although I like its features in the studio.


    Honstely, it seems to me that the profiling algorythm does not capture crunch and distorted sounds very well. Usually, a distorted tube amp sounds round, full and rich the profiles to me sound honky, brittle, edgy and sharp and distant and somewhat boxy. Not really what I want to sound like on stage. I also feel that a lot of profiles sound the same bought or free does not really matter.


    I am sorry but cant write any different at this point. But I have not completely given up on it.


    Bbb

    It' s only Rock n Roll, but I like it :D:thumbup:<3

  • Respect your opinion but to state it's a 'toy' for the studio and not good live goes against the experience of many professionals in the studio and on stage.


    Ofc, we all have different needs and wants and it's totally up to you what you use :)

  • Respect your opinion but to state it's a 'toy' for the studio and not good live goes against the experience of many professionals in the studio and on stage.


    Ofc, we all have different needs and wants and it's totally up to you what you use :)

    Ok, its a good tool in the studio especially if you re-amp etc and definetly better than the usual plug-ins, but as a professional would you prefer it for a Classic Rock and Blues gig in a small venue without a PA over a good sounding tube combo? At present I am not sure that the Kemper can sound like a real tube amp in the room.


    I also tried the usual suspects of profiles, which are included in the factory content and are rated really good like Michael Britt etc. but for some reason I can not tweak them to sound right. Maybe I am deaf, b/c I always played loud tube amps, but I am not able to make the profiles work so that I am happy with them.


    Netheravon maybe you can help me out and let me know, what you do to make the profiles sound like your playing through a tube amp? So far I tried the factory content, which includes as appetizers some samples of commercial profile packs, also I went through the top rated profiles on rig exchange. Your comments and help are highly appreciated. I am willing to make the profiles sound good, but at present not able to do that with the tools the Kemper offers.
    Bbb

    It' s only Rock n Roll, but I like it :D:thumbup:<3

  • I just got a power rack in the other day. The first 10 minutes was not what I was expecting. My initial impression was "I'm packing this up and returning it". Why? Because the profiles online didn't match the sound I heard coming from my speakers. Not through a PA and not through a cab with the cab sim off. But then I realized I have not turned a single knob. But having struggled so many times with processors, modelers and and even amps I started tweaking with immense amounts of skepticism. But to my amazement the kemper is one of the easiest pieces of gear to dial in. And the sounds just get better and better the deeper you get into editing. The changes are apparent in all parameters. On other gear I swear I could twist a knob and sometimes not even know what the hell it was supposed to have done because the sound changed so little that I questioned if something was broken. The kemper is the opposite. Its easy, quick and effective. So much so that I have found the ONLY thing complicated in dialing in the unit is the person doing the dialing. And what I mean about that is that every operation on the device is so logical and well thought out that I went into it overcomplicating things and convincing myself that certain operations couldn't be as easy. I would make a change or learn how to do something and go "really? that was it? Nah.....". So seriously I would make some changes and make separate patches for studio and live use. But get in there and start tweaking. I was worried I would hit a button and launch nukes from a country that doesn't even have them yet with all the blinking lights. But I actually find most modern day microwaves more complicated. Don't let the unit intimidate you. Its an amazing tool and even in the couple days I have owned mine I am convinced that if someone cant get not only a good tone out of it but rather the tone in their head they simply need to learn the unit better.

  • Yes, the Kemper is well designed and its concept and features are well thought out, with great options. I mean I can put a decent mix of a rock song in a studio together, but for some reason I cannot make this thing sound the way it should.


    I tried the following Eq moves on HK Audio FRFR active monitors low cut at 60Hz and High cut at 7kHz to 9kHz with the studio Eq- did not sound like amp in the room. Subtle Eq moves and aggressive Eq moves but not getting there.


    Next tweaked the amp parameters reduced treble and presence or reduced treble and boosted presence subtle and aggressive. Also changed mids and bass did not do the trick.


    Switched the stack eq from post to pre to reduce treble before the hit the amp- did not cut it for me still to rough and edgy sounding.


    Set up a studio eq in the stomp section- graphical and also tried the studio eq-basically the same result as before.


    Tried to tweak the profiles with the amplifier parameters clarity, definition, power sagging- did nötig improve it.


    In the input section reduced the sensitivity etc. used the eq knobs in the output section - unfortunately did not improve the sound.


    I think I tried quiet a bit and are somehow familiar with the parameters of the Kemper.


    Please let me know what other moves should I try so that I can use the Kemper like a tube amp in a small venue without PA? Any suggestions are highly appreciated aus I would like this to work.


    Thank you in advance for your thoughts and patience.


    Cheers
    Bbb

    It' s only Rock n Roll, but I like it :D:thumbup:<3

  • Tbh I'm not using the kemper thru a tube power amp and then into a traditional guitar cab, so someone else will be more help there.


    I go into my dxr10, which I use as backline on a stand or as a monitor in wedge position. Even in a small venue my band goes thru a pa. We try to
    Keep stage volume low and foh up. I find we always gel better when we're not fighting for sonic space.


    It is maybe a matter of adjustment of expectation when playing like this as you don't have a guitar cab blasting away at the back of your legs but, and for me this is the important bit, I hear what the audience hears no matter the size - and therefore volume - of the gig; the sound is always the same AND the tone is very good, but it's the tone of a miced amp.


    Even when I used to use a traditional combo, the cab was always miced and then put thru a pa in the venues I play so although I heard the tube amp, the audience heard it miced thru whatever pa that venue used.


    I'd rather have more control and be able to choose the profile rather than be at the mercy of a half cut sound man hanging a random mic off the handle of my combo with it dangling in front of the speaker.


    As I said at the start though, someone who used the kemper thru a traditional cab may help you more. :)

  • IMO kpa can sound spectacular through a decent pa equipped with subwoofer, but I don't own a spectacular pa and generally speaking, none of rehearsal rooms I've been have more than 2 half decent speakers that are intended to be used for vocal only.
    So, after many tries, after many frfr monitors, I've finally switched to use kpa with a linear power amp (matrix fx1000) through a standard 4x12 guitar cabinet that I can find in any rehearsal and even in most pub/gigging events.
    Is this the intended/right way to use kpa? Probably not.
    Does this setup gives me the amp in the room feeling? Yes
    You may have to experiment a bit with various profiles to find "the one", but in the meanwhile you won't be "owned" by the other guitarrist that use a regular tube amp.
    The 4x12 will color your tone, you won't be able to reproduce any tone with accuracy using the same 4x12, what you hear from your cab is not what ppl will hear through the pa, but you gonna have the punch, the air that moves, the power of a guitar amp pushed at high volume.

  • ...
    Is this the intended/right way to use kpa? Probably not.
    Does this setup gives me the amp in the room feeling? Yes
    ---

    I believe this is one of the intended uses of the Kemper and that leads to my question.
    Are you using merged profiles? Since merged profiles are intended to improve the separation of amp and cabinet, many have reported improvement when using Merged profile in a similar set up to yours.


    thanks,

  • I believe this is one of the intended uses of the Kemper and that leads to my question.
    Are you using merged profiles? Since merged profiles are intended to improve the separation of amp and cabinet, many have reported improvement when using Merged profile in a similar set up to yours.


    thanks,

    But there is a really really small percentage of Merged profiles compared to Studio ones. Only a few commercial profilers do merged proflies and only a small pack has been done by Kemper since they included the feature.

  • Please let me know what other moves should I try so that I can use the Kemper like a tube amp in a small venue without PA?

    It's important to be happy with your sound whatever it is. What is particular here at first is that you work without a PA. To get a PA is a solution. A chain of equipment is important, Kemper don't replace the PA. In another thread you said you work with your Kemper plugged inside your Marschall and it sounds very good. Why not keep it this way? Try different guitars , change pick up is another avenue. Last solution return the Kemper and work with your Marschall... if tube amp is the best for your ear. Its important that were happy doing music and like our sound. But sometimes a product is not for us. Ex for me tube amp was a nightmare, I tried to make it work, but I had bad experience (tube breaking before a show, breaking my back while I carry it etc) I could go on but I wont) I used to go to tube amp Forum to explain my problems but that over, I just sold the damn thing... and forget it. My next step is to buy a Kemper and make shows but we will use a PA even on small venues. I got a friend for instance who is already doing shows with a Kemper I saw one show and it was fantastic... I mean really fantastic. He changed his sound on every song and it was super , great tones on every songs. I will do the same and make it work and quickly It was a small place but they had a PA and a good engineer. Thats also very important a good balanced sound. As you already get a Marschall you can also compromise, Marschall for little show without PA, Kemper in studio. Making music and be unhappy with the sound is the worst place to stay long in my humble opinion. It can affect your creativity too. In conclusion my point is : use whatever make you smile. Good luck.

  • But there is a really really small percentage of Merged profiles compared to Studio ones. Only a few commercial profilers do merged proflies and only a small pack has been done by Kemper since they included the feature.

    Still,there'e plenty of excellent merged profiles available even if it not as many as studio profiles. There are free ones and I'm aware that Top Jimi has been doing Merged profiles and so does Guido and I have some from both in addition to the free ones, so it's not like there's shortage of good merged profiles, there's certainly more than enough for those who successfully adopted the Kemper as a solution.


    From my experience, there are just way too many good profiles out there.of all types.

  • We do have a very good and expensive PA (L'Accoustic) and a good sound engineer and a roadie. They carry all that stuff. I just bring an amp and my guitar.


    But we only use the PA for bigger venues. But we also love to play at smaller venues where you just need an amp, although we have a smaller PA as well. On such gigs we do not mike the amps. I thought that I could use the Kemper for these gigs as well. But maybe for now I play live through my Marshall or even smaller Hughes & Kettner Tubemeister 18 and keep the Kemper for the studio and to play around with it at home.


    We will see.


    Bbb

    It' s only Rock n Roll, but I like it :D:thumbup:<3

  • Still,there'e plenty of excellent merged profiles available even if it not as many as studio profiles. There are free ones and I'm aware that Top Jimi has been doing Merged profiles and so does Guido and I have some from both in addition to the free ones, so it's not like there's shortage of good merged profiles, there's certainly more than enough for those who successfully adopted the Kemper as a solution.
    From my experience, there are just way too many good profiles out there.of all types.

    1%?

  • Yesterday, I profiled my old Soldano SP 77 Pre-Amp as DI-Profile without any of these weird noises. I profiled a clean and a crunch Version. Ran that thru the Marshall power amp and cabinet and what shall I say sounds good to me like a real tube amp. I was shocked. I have to listen to the Profile again this evening to make sure that this is not wishful thinking and Hearing.


    bbb

    It' s only Rock n Roll, but I like it :D:thumbup:<3

  • I'm not surprised, mate. Here's what I was going to post earlier:


    At present I am not sure that the Kemper can sound like a real tube amp in the room.

    If you're using a Profile made with a microphone you're relying on the Kemper's clever algorithm to separate the cab from the amp head.


    Much better to Profile a head and feed that through your bin; it'll be a different story altogether, brother.