You can measure latency (although I don´t know how) but you can´t measure the feel as mentioned by Per and me !!!!!!
Can you and Per please post a clip of the tones/rigs/profiles where you're feeling latency.
Latency
- fretbored1
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Personally, I don't think there's some kind of "felt" latency as well.
What you guys are experiencing may be a specific "attack"-feel from the original amp itself. Some amp models (profiles) feel "spongier" or more elastic than others. Others feel stiffer. It's all pretty normal - like with real amps.
The guys who profiled their amps should know if there is some perceived change in sound or feel from the amp they profiled. If there was a noticable latency when comparing the original to the profile - I'm sure they would have said so.
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Can you and Per please post a clip of the tones/rigs/profiles where you're feeling latency.
??? you cannot "hear" latency in a clip unless you close mic the acoustic sound of the strings as well. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong...
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Personally, I don't think there's some kind of "felt" latency as well.
What you guys are experiencing may be a specific "attack"-feel from the original amp itself.
The guys who profiled their amps should know if there is some perceived change in sound or feel from the amp they profiled. If there was a noticable latency when comparing the original to the profile - I'm sure they would have said so.
not necessarily, unless they are monitoring with in-ear or headphones, 5ms is the latency you experience sitting a 1,7m from the speaker
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If I read all the posts of this thread again I realize that not only Me and Per are feeling someting but also fretbored1 (who startet the thread) gbs and Dogman
made similar experiences altough they described it a little bit different.The problem is that you can´t hear it but only feel it, so that posting sound files is useless. The best thing is a direct personal comparison side by side as I have done it and will do it again and again with always the same result.
I´ve postet at the fractal forum that the ultimate solution is a modeller/profiler whatever that has the feel of the Axe and the rest (sound, easy to use etc.) of the kemper.
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not necessarily, unless they are monitoring with in-ear or headphones, 5ms is the latency you experience sitting a 1,7m from the speaker
Yes, I didn't question this. What do you mean with "not necessarily"? It can't be a specific amp attack?
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A simple approach to measuring latency is the following:
- Use an analog device to split the signal of your guitar (or any other signal generator you might want to use). Currently I use a DI box for this.
- Output No.1 (the XLR out of my DI Box) goes straight into one input of my computers soundcard
- Output No.2 (the "thru" of my DI Box) goes into the input of the Kemper and the Kempers output then to a second input of my soundcard
- Now I play a short, percussive signal and record both soundcard inputs in my DAW
- By comparing where the signal starts on each track you can measure exactly how big the delay/latency is that the Kemper introduces in relation to the unprocessed signal
I tried it with firmware 1.0.0, 1.0.3. and 1.0.4, without noisgate, with everything bypassed as well as with the amp-stack activated.
The outcome was always the same: 5 msOf course there´s always the possiblity of an error/mistake on my part but I measured other digital devices in the past with the exact same method and on the same recording-setup and always got results that where well within the respective manurfacturers claims.
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Yes, I didn't question this. What do you mean with "not necessarily"? It can't be a specific amp attack?
I mean that sitting in the room with the amp and swapping from profile to real amp, would not necessarily make a so short latency evident, is enough that the amp is over 1,7m far to give it a higher latency then the sound coming out from the monitors. From the comments here I understand that is a quite consistent feel, not linked to specific profiles.
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??? you cannot "hear" latency in a clip unless you close mic the acoustic sound of the strings as well. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong...
I know you can't hear latency in a clip, that's not why I asked for a clip.
I want to hear what they're playing when they feel this latency. -
Got it, Lance.
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Personally, I don't think there's some kind of "felt" latency as well.
What you guys are experiencing may be a specific "attack"-feel from the original amp itself. Some amp models (profiles) feel "spongier" or more elastic than others. Others feel stiffer. It's all pretty normal - like with real amps.
The guys who profiled their amps should know if there is some perceived change in sound or feel from the amp they profiled. If there was a noticable latency when comparing the original to the profile - I'm sure they would have said so.
Exactly.
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I mean that sitting in the room with the amp and swapping from profile to real amp, would not necessarily make a so short latency evident, is enough that the amp is over 1,7m far to give it a higher latency then the sound coming out from the monitors.
I agree partially - it would not be evident in terms of "hear" - but it would be in terms of "feel". When comparing their profile with the original - any small change (even in latency) should result in a different feel. So I'm sure the guys actually doing profiles here would shout it out and be all over this...
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Here you go, the "myth" of latency.
"Give this a try. Plug a
microphone into a standard analog sound system and speak while standing
5 feet from the loudspeaker. You're now experiencing about 5 ms of
latency. Step back another 5 feet, and you're experiencing about 10 ms
of latency. Move the microphone a foot away from your mouth, and it
adds another 1 ms.Delays within an ensemble of musicians can be, and often are,
relatively long. Think of a symphony where performers are located
across a 40-foot stage. The conductor waves a baton to keep time. The
percussion section might be 30 feet (and 30 ms) away, while the second
violins are 5 feet (and 5 ms) away.Does the conductor hear all of the notes attacking at different times?
The harps might be 40 feet (and 40 ms) away from the timpani. Do they
think they sound out of time with each other? How do the musicians stay
in synch with each other?Actually, research sponsored by the National Science Foundation,
through the Stanford University Department of Music, has shown that
performers in an ensemble have no problem synchronizing with each other
while experiencing latencies as high as 40 ms and even greater. In
fact, latencies in the 10 ms to 20 ms range actually have a stabilizing
affect on tempo and are thought to be preferred over zero latency. 2 http://www-ccrma.stanford.edu/…oundwire/performdelay.pdf " -
And here we have guitarists discussing latencies of between 2ms and 5ms.
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The link is not working, Lance. Interesting read though
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And here we have guitarists discussing latencies of between 2ms and 5ms.
Oh come on! 5ms vs 2ms is serious shit!
It's not like we have to worry about anything else like world hunger, economic crisis, environmental pollution, cancer or stuff like that.
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The link is not working, Lance. Interesting read though
Read the entire article, it's very interesting.
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Very interesting article, thanks Lance!
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Again: I´ve writen that I think it is not a latency problem.
Do feel a difference in playing a Roland JC-120 vs. a good tube amp ? I mean not the dynamic but the feel when you attack the strings.Per has decribed it very well !!!!!
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The kemper feels more immediate then the axe to me- and I'm very fussy with latency- so much so- many computer modellers just frustrate me.
But the Kemper not only sounds great but she feels the best out of the many I've had
