Here is the situation.. I started a new band. We are going to be using the behringer in ear monitoring system with the Turbosound iP2000 speaker systems with a behringer X18R mixer with ipad control.
I will be using my kemper, my other guitar player will be using my Fractal AX8, bass will be direct with a tech 21 bass fly rig pedal, and the drums are my Roland TD25kV drums. I have played in many many bands with stage volumes just unbearable, i am trying a different route to help with setup and our ears and the ears of the audience.
Is having no stage sound at all a good idea? I play at church all the time with my kemper direct with just in ears but that is more of an AC30 dirt reverb and delay and its totally fine. But using a more heavier profile from choptones or britt or others i have is really bland in my ears. I haven't messed with the space value on the kemper yet, so i will try that tonight. I am using Westone UM3x triple driver inears with custom molds, so everything is sealed off correctly. Didn't know if any of you guys had advice on this situation about better in ear tone for heavier styles and is no stage volume at all wise?
Help on live sound with no stage volume...
- stevan5150
- Thread is marked as Resolved.
-
Having no stage sound is the best idea ever. First of all, as far as I understand the above, you're all using IEM so If there would be any stage sound, you wouldn't hear it anyway.
Second, I think your soundengineer will be very pleased with no stage sound. -
I recently read a post of @tylerhb and his band. I think they strictly follow that silent stage approach. You may want to contact him and ask about his experience. To me this concept is completely new. As we play Classic Rock the traditional way. But it is an interesting approach completely different from what I know.
bbb
-
I recently read a post of @tylerhb and his band. I think they strictly follow that silent stage approach. You may want to contact him and ask about his experience. To me this concept is completely new. As we play Classic Rock the traditional way. But it is an interesting approach completely different from what I know.
bbb
That´s right, this is exactly what we do and probably the best decision ever. We use Kempers, X32 Producer, stagediver SD-3 InEars (which are awesome), and most important an EDrum kit. I have been struggling with EDrums for a very long time since the drum sound is essential for our music (mostly metal). Even the Rolang flagship drum modules are unsatisfying if you are used to the sound of Superior Drummer or other VSTis. The new Pearl Mimic seems to be the first module to natively provide good sound with the right amount of sample layers, but is a closed system without the possibility of importing own multisamples. We use a 2Box and load all custom sounds onto it which were converted from all the big VSTis. We use a Jobeky Drumkit with real size wood shells plus e-cymbals made of metal... It is just and great and satisfying experience having this in your band...
The most essential benefit of that silent stage approach it that you have no bleed from the drums into the vocal mics. This makes it possible to put the same amount of compression/limiting onto the vocals mics which comes close to a studio quality vocal sound. The lack of noise and monitor bleed coming from the stage also makes the job so much easier for the FOH tech. As long as the PA is properly adjusted with EQs all you need to do is turn the faders up with nearly zero need to eq anything since you are able to bring your studio sound onto the stage.
If you are interested here´s a pic of the drumkit. By now all cymbals have been replaced with the jobeky metal cymbals...
[Blocked Image: http://194.94.26.26/public/WhatsApp%20Image%202017-03-12%20at%2018.12.41.jpeg]
-
To me this concept is completely new. As we play Classic Rock the traditional way. But it is an interesting approach completely different from what I know.
bbb
Wow!! In top-100-coverbands this is a very common aproach, for many years now. And not only for coverbands. A lot of metalbands are playing this way.
We've played with a drummer who had his very expensive Mapex kit triggered with a Roland TD-30. That drummodule is sounding awesome and behaves like an acoustic kit, i.e. if you hit a tom, the other toms are "rumbling" a bit, like for real. Of course this is a setting that's not mandatory.
-
Wow!! In top-100-coverbands this is a very common aproach, for many years now. And not only for coverbands. A lot of metalbands are playing this way.
We've played with a drummer who had his very expensive Mapex kit triggered with a Roland TD-30. That drummodule is sounding awesome and behaves like an acoustic kit, i.e. if you hit a tom, the other toms are "rumbling" a bit, like for real. Of course this is a setting that's not mandatory.We are all 50+ Classic rock cover band. Most of us have been playing in bands as teenagers. And eversince we played real drum kits and heavy tube amps etc. Sounds like the stone age, with all that new equipment around. But for some reason I cannot see myself playing in a small bar with IEM on a silent stage. On bigger stages I can see that the silent stage is an advantage.
-
I'm heading 50 myself
I know the feeling of having a full tube amp blowing your ears and pants off (I've had a Mesa Triple Recto for almost ten years). -
But for some reason I cannot see myself playing in a small bar with IEM on a silent stage. On bigger stages I can see that the silent stage is an advantage.
This is a common understanding, but in fact the opposite is the case. The smaller the venue, the more you will profit from the silent stage approach. On a big festival stage, instruments bleeding into other instruments mics are far less of a problem because the distance is higher as well as the separation from monitor to FOH sound. With the silent stage approach you can have a death metal band perform in your living room and still produce a crystal clear sound over a small PA.
-
As an example: A few weeks back we had a gig in a very small venue. The room was also very boomy and it was nearly impossible to get anything on the PA other than Vocals and digital devices. Our drummer tried to play as quiet as possible and had to switch to Hot Rods to get a snare sound which doesn't break your ears in this room. It was a good gig, but also a hard challenge to play so quiet... And of course the sound was more or less a mess.
Also to add... in some countries you've got more and more loudness restrictions and this problem often takes place in small venues in the inner city close to normal living buildings. We've got venues where they had to switch the subs off from an official order or close it for concerts. And some of the live techs I work with come more and more often to the problem that only the on stage sound is measured as too loud without turning the PA on. You can blame on these restrictions (which sometimes doesn't make any sense) but you have to handle this and a quiet stage is the only way I know which really fixes these problems.
Actually we can't switch completely because of monetary issues
but it also can be implemented over time... -
I have done "silent" rehearsals and had various dealings with IEM's live...
My views are:
- It saves your ears! So much better than ear plugs, even the filtered ones..
- Sound engineers love you
- The audience loves you because you are not playing at a volume to match the drummer - you have ultimate control
- I think it suits smaller venues even better than large (for the reasons stated above)
- You can hear everything and everyone clearly - so you tend to play better/tighter
- It isolates you from the audience which can be off putting
- To one of your points, it just doesn't sound the same....but this is the same with regular amps and the Kemper - although my Kemper sounds much better. You do need to play with the space setting but personally I've never had a great earphone sound.
- Its another set of wires, batteries etc to manage!
-
Yes, we had issues with loudness as well. I do not understand but some of our guys have to Play ultra-loud to get the right Rock n Roll feel I guess. It came to a point where our techie mentioned that this is not healthy, b/c during a gig measured at the FOH we had reached 120db. He told us that this is not allowed in Germany over a longer periods of time. Or at least you have to set up warning signs to inform the audience about that these loudness Levels can damage your hearing.
With some tupe amps the problem is, that the are very loud even if the volume knob is set fairly low, that makes it even worse for the techie, b/c the amp blows everything away and he is not in a situation to create a decent mix. But I am not sure, if the other guys will understand the advantages of a silent stage. They probably miss that Rock n Roll Feeling, where it has to be loud. I can only play with filtering ear-plugs due to some advice of my doctor.
bbb
-
Being a soundtech myself, I once found myself being ordered to tun off FOH sound completly, including the female singer. Took the monitors down as much as i could, but drums are loud, guitars too... I'll never forget the look on her dad's face, the disappointment was heartbreaking...
So yes, no stage sound is a veeery good idea. You will have to drag along your own 32 channel desk for those small venues (which are dead cheap nowadays), but you can leave home your 4x12 cabs, AND you can comply with sound regulations, no matter what happens.
An extra plus is that your soundtech doesnt need to take the place of 10 paying visitors in the room, in a place your client doesnt want it (=middle of the room), I roam around using my ipad... makes for very happy venue-owners
Offcourse real drums sound better, but theres an 80% percent chance your drummer cant control its volume
-
We do play silent since a while - so using eDrum, Kemper (me on Git) , Line6 (our other Git) and TC Electonics(Bass). FOH is X32.
All on IEM. I figured out, that the biggest challenge for me was to get a trust to the sound and also a good mix to feel good and comfortable during playing.
We have now installed an X18air with splitters to have an indepedant monitor sound for everybody.I've found my way to get the sound I need:
I'm using a Behringer Ultranet Pro MX882, which is a mixer/splitter. The main outs (stereo) are connected with my Sennheiser EW300, my IEM are stage-diver SD-4.
From my Kemper, I run my stereo out into the splitter before the signal goes to FOH. I also run my mono Monitor Mix signal from X18 into my Behringer + a kopie of the FOH main out (stereo) signal into my Behringer as well. This allows/provides me all options I need to mix on my Behringer extactly the sound, I want.
Might sound a little bit unusual, but with an investment of about 110€ for the Behringer, I get what I want.
