Is the kemper able to capture at least some of the "room" in the profiles?

  • On the TAF and Top Jimi sound clips, it seems like it has some of the room reverb in there, as if the mic is slightly farther away from the cab. Is this something they add to these clips post recording, or is the kemper able to capture some of that.


    The more clips I listen to of the Kemper, the more I am blown away at how it actually sounds like a miced amp, and has that "organic" sound instead of sounding "direct".


    By the way, I placed an order for a kemper yesterday. I am excited to audition against my axe fx, as I haven't been happy with the tones from the axe.

  • AFAIK There's nothing captured within a profile that contains room information.


    Even a profiled signal chain with some very distant microphone would have all the room information eliminated.

    So it is likely they add the reverb post? Even though they say no effects or EQ was applied?


    This clip for example, there is some sort of reverb/room vibe in there, even though they state no effects or EQ was applied.


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  • AFAIK There's nothing captured within a profile that contains room information.


    Even a profiled signal chain with some very distant microphone would have all the room information eliminated.


    Yeah, the Kemper does NOT capture room reflections - but does capture the tonal signature of whereever the mic is placed. So this, coupled with some reverb (eg the built-in effects) could yield results that sound like it was authentically a room capture.

    I think Michael's onto something there.


    I remember Andy's saying that he had experimented with this after the new studio build and was going to incorporate what he'd learned into future Profiling efforts.

  • So it is likely they add the reverb post? Even though they say no effects or EQ was applied?
    This clip for example, there is some sort of reverb/room vibe in there, even though they state no effects or EQ was applied.


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    If you notice in the beginning of all Top Jimi profile videos it states there are no EXTERNAL effects added. Meaning every effect you hear is done on the Kemper, including the reverb that you hear.

  • Room/amb mics will offer a delayed signal in reality. - thus giving a depth perspective into a recording, this is true if you blend with close mics to hear the offset.


    With profiling, and the way the profiler works the algorithms, it has to zero time align its signal. thus eliminating the "Space" between signal and ambience, so while you can get the "effect" of the signal, but you wont get the "detail or depth" of the original signal.


    Room mics is not a reverb, and cannot or ever will be achived with reverb algorithms.- room mics are very unique & fundamental part of recording. and of course, the room your in is the biggest thing of all!.


    So in a nutshell, nope it cant do it. it can emulate the sonic spectrum, but cant actually give you that "roomy" airy sound you will get from a large mic live room setup.

  • There is an opportunity for Kemper to support capturing (or importing) reverb IR's and use them in the reverb module though.

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  • There is an opportunity for Kemper to support capturing (or importing) reverb IR's and use them in the reverb module though.

    No you cant.


    See the logic is, that, actually lets call it a "iR" for this illustration, The speaker element would be the one capturing the ROOM mics. - because they are at a greater distance it would require a longer sample. longer IR samples are very heavy on processing. evn modern day modules such as Briscati M7 reverb unit cant cope with he long IR information capture time it will take. Convolution is only ever OK at best. and to be used lightly.


    Many other guitar based units emulate room sound via a verb algorithm of some kind, and this will never work.. sure to the person who never has used room mics correctly wont be able to tell the difference.


    But imagine the scenario of what your suggesting. - ROOm mics, plus close mics. all on the same sample. - thats 2 lots of information it has to capture at 2 different latency times. to compute this in real-time is not cost effective in any way shape or form. you would need several processors to be able to handle it.


    Maybe in the future we will see this. - but currently the longest ever IR is 200/250ms in any processor based equipment. - and to capture a true sound imagine of correct room your looking at well over 500ms.


    While I agree the Kemper is King of the Hill.. really it is for pure authentic guitar tones, it still has its limitations. I use the kemper a lot in my studio, but I still use real amps depending on the band Im recording and what the target is.

  • Sorry - I wasn't suggesting doing everything at once. There is no need to. To capture the IR of a space you simply need a microphone and an impulse. There is no secret to it (other than mic placement etc.) (Here an Igloo is being captured :)


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    But that's capturing which I agree is not Kempers raison d'etre.


    Are you confident the Kemper doesn't have enough processing power to convolute an existing IR real time? The Briscati you mention seem to support IR's up to 3 seconds at least (check the free ones here: http://www.samplicity.com/bricasti-m7-impulse-responses/)


    I'm not an expert though - so please educate me :)

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  • Well you can capture long reverb halls/stadiums all day long. up to 15 secs or more if you want. - But by the time you deconvolve them into an IR.. no processor will run them. (you can run them on your Computer ofc) but only 1.. and that is even painfully sluggish.


    You may then say.. AH yes.. but there are tons of plugins out there that do reverb for longer.. Yes.. see its clever trickery.. often they will use a VERY Small IR (maybe the first second, just to get the base tone/spectrum) then the rest is done in code realtime.. : )


    an yes Im 100% confident the kemper cant do it due to processor power.There is not a single unit out there that can


    3 secs is still not enough to capture the heart & soul of Amb/room mics in a good room. on our tests we did the best results were about 6 secs or more. this was a very true lifelike "static" snap of the room.

  • It seems there is actually some FFT<>IFFT trickery you can actually do to run realtime convolution on processors (https://dsp.stackexchange.com/…e-convolution-reverb-work). Anyway we are getting OT.

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  • I've been able to run multiple instances of very-long IR's and other sound-FX samples and drones (as IR's) using Digital Performer's built-in convolution plugin, no problemo, and that's without even using the DAW's pre-rendering facilities. Both the efficiency of processors and the algorithms themselves have come a long way since the heady days when a single AltiVerb™ instance could bring a G3 Mac to its knees.


    Just sayin'. I don't think the length of an IR captured in a typical room-mic'd situation would present any problems whatsoever for the Kemper even as it is spec'd today; it's only going to need to be able to run one instance in this scenario after all.


    I reckon a full-spectrum pulse could be added to the Space Invaders™ data stream that could be isolated by a tweaked Profiling algorithm in order to be able to offer an adjustable room-mic ambience for any given Profiled setup, provided of course that a second, distant mic were used. The IR would rarely need to be more than a second and a half long IMHO.


    In order to reduce any mic-separation error, a-la the way cabinet components are "guessed", the Kemper could display a message saying, "Unmute distant mic now" before firing off the impulse. Done!