Tonewoods are going extinct. So now what?

I have a pau ferro fingerboard on my suhr. It's a lovely piece of wood. Tbh I'm not and never have been convinced about how much effect tonewoods have on an electric. I think the pups, amp and number of effects you go thru have a much much bigger impact. I'm sure lots of people feel the same.

I'm perfectly happy without a rosewood or ebony fingerboard

@Netheravon

Out of curiosity and without any intend for irony..have you ever played a mahagony type of guitar with single coils which had the "real twang";

I ask because I really had a look into this issue long time ago any my answer was "mahagony/single coils=bad twang"..

So my conclusion back then was tonewoods have very well an effect.My conclusion was also that for example PUs have less effect on the guitars tone than lets say the nut material.

But this is ofcourse just my view on things.

@Nikos actually I think not. The rosewood and mahogany have been buckers. I've always liked a warm, thick mid lead tone.

The tele I've got has a dark wood fingerboard but I bought it about 5th hand so I'm not sure what the wood is, buts it's got a more open grain than ebony. But that guitar has oodles of mojo.

@nakedzen The suhr feels nice on the fingers, smooth fingerboard, there are no signs of any cracks, warping or any type of negative change. I live in the uk though so there aren't really that extreme differences in climate and I've not travelled with that guitar.

IMO tonewoods are "the base"..then the scale of the neck/kind of "connection" between neck/body,then everything which "touches the stings" (bridge,nut,frets) and finally PUs (ofcourse if we leave out the "concept" HB and SCs out of this equation)..something like this in this order..but again,this is just my view on things.

I am also the crazy guy who believes that the player forms the sound of his favorite guitars through his playing over many years (power of attack of the right hand/"vibrato left hand-shockwaves","bending-attrition effect on frets and many other crazy things I believe in..) but again..this might be just a crazy theory of mine.

I'm admittedly on the skeptical side with a lot of the tone debates, but I think that even if you accept the importance of "tone woods" in the guitar body I find it hard to believe that a fretboard is going to make any noticeable difference. I own guitars with maple, rosewood and ebony fretboards and I love the ebony, but it's more about the the look and feel than the sound.

I also believe that a one or even more parts of the "equation" can be replaced and a good luthier knows how to use the basic colours to create the nuances for the whole picture..

An ebony fretboard surely can be replaced by other tonewoods.

Quote from Nikos

@Netheravon

Out of curiosity and without any intend for irony..have you ever played a mahagony type of guitar with single coils which had the "real twang";

I ask because I really had a look into this issue long time ago any my answer was "mahagony/single coils=bad twang"..

So my conclusion back then was tonewoods have very well an effect.My conclusion was also that for example PUs have less effect on the guitars tone than lets say the nut material.

But this is ofcourse just my view on things.

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Hello Nikos,

Since you are talking about single-coil pickups, I presume you are talking about electric guitars. In which case, I would cordially disagree that the "pickups have less effect on the guitars tone than lets say the nut material." I mean, I obviously don't know your guitar style and type of music you play on your electric...but in my case (and I would assume the majority of cases), the only time the nut comes into play is if i happen to play an open string, which is relatively rare. Again, I am speaking strictly in terms of electric guitar playing, in a rock n' roll / metal milieu.

So, in that sense, the pickups have a much (MUCH) greater impact and contribution to the overall tonal signature of an electric guitar, as compared to the nut.

Conversely, on an acoustic and classical guitar, the nut's material and composition obviously has a much greater influence on the guitar's tone...specifically due to the much greater frequency in which open strings are struck and allowed to sound (i.e. ring).

Cheers,
John

As species of wood become too cost prohibitive or too regulated to be practical for mass production, alternate species of wood will be used. For example, the new Epiphone Les Paul SL has a poplar body.

@Tritium

I understand your argument ie the nut but "something" tells me that the whole instrument is "reacting" with each note we play and every part of the guitar is part of how the guitar sounds (cant describe it more accurate). ..does the PU only mic only the note you play on the 5th/10th or 20th fret;Or does the PU mic the whole guitar;I dont know..I only know that my "cheap" schaller golden 50s on my custom made lespaul do not sound "worse" than PUs I tried and which cost many times the money of the golden 50s..

But as I said.I am not sure if I am right with all this.I might be dead wrong.Definetly all this is food for thouht and I cant make it clear enough enough that my opinion is just this..my opinion..

As for the PUs..I never understood how (besides the difference in output) an PU should produce "more warmth" or "more highs" etc when it is just a "microphone" which may be "underwound" or "overwound" but the principle stays the same.Ofcourse it is important to put the right PU in your guitar..dont like to sound like a smartass but ofcourse I would not put a humbucker in my strat when I want the "twang" and I also would not put a higher output single coil when I want a "vintage sound" etc..but thats it IMO..

How can one single coil with the same output sound "more vintage" than another;Who can explain me this;Because I really would like to know..

Quote from Nikos

How can one single coil with the same output sound "more vintage" than another;Who can explain me this;Because I really would like to know..

Well, for one, a pickup is in itself both an inductor and a capacitor forming part of a larger circuit. So things like wire gauge and length will make a difference in the "general EQ curve" of the sound. Add to that the width of the coil, which has an impact on how it "hears" the string. Furthermore, I assume the power of the magnet makes a difference regarding roll-off of higher frequencies. And how uniform the magnet is etc. Scatterwound vs whatever the opposite is called could make a difference regarding how the electrons move through the wire as well - the moving string will affect each small section of wire differently as each section of wire is angled differently to the plane of movement of the string - this might cause positive or negative interference, which further could shape the sound.

These are all just off the top of my head, and some of it is pure speculation as I don't have a good understanding of electrical stuff

Hi Michael..

I am a child of the 80s with all its "signature PUs" from the Jeff Beck to the Pearly Gates to the Malmsteen HS-3(btw a lowoutput piece of Sh** if you ask me) and so on and so on..I remember what back then was written about the "magic power" of PUs..it was almost an hysteria..

Then when people got more money all the "signature guitars" appeared..and the "signature PU"-stuff calmed down a lot..

Today we have the same with "signature amps"..

Looking back to this time when good guitars("vintage" gibsons & fenders) could be bought for peanuts while strange and bad sounding superstrats were the "big thing" today guitar players have learned their lesson I guess.One of these lessons learned is "you cant cheat physics"..

Sorry but I dont hear the "EQ-curve" between two similiar Humbuckers which have the same output.And I still wait for someone to explain it to me exactly and not "theoratically"..because in reality I never ever heard a difference.And btw..all the guys who bought back then all the JBs and PGs did neither...

Next question would be (always have been) why not using just an onboard-EQ/preamp;

The answer is simple and eternal..guitars are plain simple instruments.Nevertheless their sound is the product of all parts.Everything which can "resonate" will do so and the PUs will mic it..for me personally there is not much "magic" left in there.

Just to feed the debate, I once read on a luthier website that changing PUs has much more impact on mahogany / rosewood / tonewoods guitars than maple / ash which already defines the sound in a way PUs changes can't have much effect on it. Looks like you all are a little bit right then

More seriously, I'll give my bucks to the company that will propose great sounding sustainable guitars, there's much to be made yet

Necessity is the mother of invention and when the cost of tonewoods is greater than the cost of composite or cellulose replacements, you'll see a lot more companies research and develop alternatives to wood. Guitars would certainly be a LOT more consistent if they are able to mimic the particular characteristics of each wood species. You can also make a one-piece guitar with no joints.

I owned a couple Vibracell guitars over the years. They weren't spectacular but they were certainly better than most poplar or paulownia guitars that I've played. I also didn't experiment with pickups like I usually do so, for all I know, they could have sounded a lot better. The problem I had with those particular instruments I owned were the fretboards. They had something that was supposed to look, sound and feel like ebony but it was nowhere close to it. And, of course, everyone knows about Steinberger

@pamplemousse

I never would claim that the players who "believe" in the PU-thing are wrong..it is just that for me this story has never worked out.In my 20s I experimented with "everything" and most of all with Floyds..while most of my buddies went on the PU-experience trip..it did not worked out for neither of us.You cant cheat physics.

Today the problem is solved through the triple-guitar solution:Everyone has a LesPaul a Strat and a superstrat(plus the fitting tube amps).The best solution anyway..

@ElDoca

A great luthier many years ago told me that "all good wood is sold"..and when I asked "what now"; he answered "ofcourse we (he meant the luthiers and companies) will not tell anyone.."

I do love the grainy feel of a rosewood fretboard and I think I can tell the difference between the tone of a rosewood board and a varnished maple one. I shan't be putting myself forward for any blind comparisons though, I'm not that confident I'm pretty sad about the rosewood shortage

Hi guys,
I most definitely am not in this kind of looking at my guitars, and I don't have any professional skills or experience to make what is known as "clever guesses" which I take as adding quite a lot of science and a good portion of intuition in the equations. I buy a guitar, given I may afford it, if and only if I like the sound, the feel and the handling.
The new professionell Fender models e.g. changed the material in the pups to the effect that every string gets it's own magnetic characteristics in the pu. When I compare my new Tele with one of the older models I hear quite a different sound. (Very subjective, I agree) But then again: Maybe it's nothing to do with the pups and all them changes of sound are solely caused by the new bone nut. In this case Fender's top pu designer (Mr. Shaw) did al lot of work for nothing. But it sounds really cool to my ears and that does it for me.

I hope the following videos are helpful in the discussion. I don't have any legal rights for these videos.

Greetings
Joachim

Quote from Morph

I do love the grainy feel of a rosewood fretboard and I think I can tell the difference between the tone of a rosewood board and a varnished maple one. I shan't be putting myself forward for any blind comparisons though, I'm not that confident I'm pretty sad about the rosewood shortage

Indeed, there is no question of that. I have three Fender YJM Strats. Two have all maple necks, and the other has a rosewood fretboard. Besides the difference in fretboard wood, they are all identical. The all maple necks Strats are brighter, with a bit sharper "attack". The rosewood Strat is more mellow and "warm", with a bit rounder "attack". Now, don't get me wrong, I am not claiming these are super dramatic, "night-vs-day" differences, and one has to be somewhat attuned to this sort of thing. Nevertheless, they do exist.

Cheers,
John

While I'm not completely crazy about my Parker Fly Mojo in every aspect, the fretboard is the best I can imagine. Carbon fiber makes is so smooth and easy to play. Really love that and I wish other brands would offer these kind of fretboards as well.
Also I wonder what happened to Richlite fretboards. Haven't actually tried one but just from reading about it, it sounded like a valid alternative to me. Anyone tried one and can tell his experience? Would be very interested to know a bit more about that.