Using the Kemper with FRFR live

    I've been giving it a go for a few weeks. I've been using my Powerhead with a Matrix FR10p. I'm not completely sold. I love the Kemper and love using it in my apartment and for recording, but the sound of a miked amp behind just doesn't do it for me when playing with my covers band.


    It's okay, but it's not amazing. Before I go and sell all my accessories and replacing them with a Rockerverb 50 and a pedal board of Strymons, what can I do to make this feel more like an amp in the room? At the moment I think it's all sounding a bit thin, lacking low end and the general quality that a good quality amp has. I know that it will sound pretty much exactly the same as a miked amp, but I'm just not fully satisfied with the live sound I'm getting and as it's a casual covers band, it's mainly for my satisfaction.


    We won't be practicing for a couple of weeks now, so it's hard for me to gauge the sound without being there so I thought I'd get some tips.


    Pure Cab, does that help a lot?

    Pure Cab helps some yes. Also, make sure you try various profiles. Not all are setup the same for live use. Once the volume goes up the game changes. If you love the cab then try it into a cab. That may do the trick for you. Merged will definitely get you full separation of amp and cab, however studio profiles may/can also work fine.

    "More Guitar in the Monitors" :thumbup:

    Quote from whippinpost91850


    I dunno, it still doesn't have the same tube quality for me. It's very strange, if I profile, or listen to a profile I hear no difference, but when it's f'kin loud in a rehearsal room or on a stage, the Kemper just doesn't cut it for me. Whether I can get very close with some EQing and Pure Cab and whether that's enough for me is to be seen. It's an absolute nightmare shipping these things and I lose money doing it. I just sold a ZIlla cab I had recently bought after deciding to go FRFR without actually bothering to give the cab a chance because I was hell bent on being as light as possible. It seems this was a shortsighted decision. Doh.

    Quote from creative360

    Don't overthink it. Pro Junior with a few Joyo pedals means great live tones in a tiny package until you figure out if the Kemper live is for you. It is capable of achieving what you're after. But getting there may not be as much of a no-brainer as going with what you know. Btw, for the audience, going with what you know may not sound as nice as the Kemper would, fed to front of house.

    I think this would yield similar results, I'd just lose money and end up buying the other stuff eventually. The answer is what you suggest, but with better options. Try and find a solution, try it out at practice, give it another couple of sessions and see where we are.


    I could also use the Kemper as an effects unit live into the effects loop of am amp. That could also work.

    I love my Matrix NL12, and I dare say something like the NL212 would be what you're after (with the right profiles, of course). I use mine live with cabs on and it sounds and feels great.

    I agree that a normal guitar cab is the answer, combined with a global EQ set with a high pass filter to tame the highs at high volume.


    When I use a direct profile of my Bogner Shiva and send the output to the actual speakers in that amp it sounds remarkably similar. It's not the same - the Shiva still has a more rich and "organic" sound, but it's easily close enough.

    Quote from Finally

    I agree that a normal guitar cab is the answer, combined with a global EQ set with a high pass filter to tame the highs at high volume.


    When I use a direct profile of my Bogner Shiva and send the output to the actual speakers in that amp it sounds remarkably similar. It's not the same - the Shiva still has a more rich and "organic" sound, but it's easily close enough.

    Yea. I think I would still want a more organic sound. I can't fault the FR10p, it does exactly what it's meant to do. It's light, it sounds as it's meant to, but I think I just prefer a normal amp. I bought a Fender Deville 212 for really cheap so I'm sure I'll be satisfied. Or... I'm back on the buy/sell amp merry-go-round.

    Quote from PhilUK84

    I had the FR212 and it was pretty good, but its too big and I think overall, all the FRFR solutions sound somewhat similar.

    You saw that i wrote NL212, right? The Neo Light series is a range of really lightweight cabinets with speakers that sound akin to Vintage 30s, though with an extended low end due to the ported cabinet. I feel maybe they have a touch more highs than a regular guitar cab, which helps to bring out the individuality of different Kemper Cabs of various profiles, too, though I've used my NL12 with a regular amp and it sounded great in that application also. So, to sum up, they aren't FRFR but perhaps more versatile regular guitar cabs. So light, you can lift them in one hand over your head!

    I've tried everything to get the amp in the room sound / live sound. Most important to me is that I feel no connection when playing the KPA through (very good) FRFR monitors or using KPA, poweramp and cabinet. I've tried several options and try to tweak the sound. I bought a second hand 1974 twin reverb and I am completely satsified with the sound. I feel the connection with the sound and I use this in the rehearsal room and live and I could not be happyer. Sure, I miss the effects on the KPA but with a pedalboard I have most effects I want.


    No offence to KPA. I still use it for home rehearsal and recording and the sound is almost comparible to a miked amp.

    Quote from sambrox

    You saw that i wrote NL212, right? The Neo Light series is a range of really lightweight cabinets with speakers that sound akin to Vintage 30s, though with an extended low end due to the ported cabinet. I feel maybe they have a touch more highs than a regular guitar cab, which helps to bring out the individuality of different Kemper Cabs of various profiles, too, though I've used my NL12 with a regular amp and it sounded great in that application also. So, to sum up, they aren't FRFR but perhaps more versatile regular guitar cabs. So light, you can lift them in one hand over your head!

    Sorry, I thought that was a FR solution too. My mistake! Yea, I've heard good things about them.

    Quote from PhilUK84

    Yea. I think I would still want a more organic sound. I can't fault the FR10p, it does exactly what it's meant to do. It's light, it sounds as it's meant to, but I think I just prefer a normal amp. I bought a Fender Deville 212 for really cheap so I'm sure I'll be satisfied. Or... I'm back on the buy/sell amp merry-go-round.


    Phil, I strongly encourage you not to make another "shortsighted decision" (in your words). As has already been emphasized by others already -- If you can't bond with FRFR, you need to demo your powered KPA through various guitar cabs. And just as importantly, you need to run it through it's paces, with your selected guitar cabinet, at an actual gig while operating at gig volume levels.


    I would also recommend you use some great merged profiles, so you can run just the Direct Amp portion of the profile through your Cabinet.


    Cheers,
    John

    Before you give up completely on the FRFR try having a small reverb always on to give you the feeling of some air moving as you would hear with a cabinet. I learned this with another product and have been adding it ever since. When you rake the strings you will get that slight echo reverberation that you get when your cabinet is loud. Just another thought that has made noticeable results for me.

    "More Guitar in the Monitors" :thumbup:

    Quote from Tritium

    Phil, I strongly encourage you not to make another "shortsighted decision" (in your words). As has already been emphasized by others already -- If you can't bond with FRFR, you need to demo your powered KPA through various guitar cabs. And just as importantly, you need to run it through it's paces, with your selected guitar cabinet, at an actual gig while operating at gig volume levels.


    I would also recommend you use some great merged profiles, so you can run just the Direct Amp portion of the profile through your Cabinet.


    Cheers,
    John

    I done all of this before. 2 years ago I had the CLR, the Q12, the FR212. I liked the FR212 but preferred it through a cab. I done this for a few weeks and the went back to my Rockerverb and Bassman and was just blown away by how connected I felt to the amp.


    I like the FR10p and FR more than I did the last time but for me, I think it'll be a futile exercise getting a cab and stuff. I've already lost a couple hundred £££ so I just think I'll go for what feels right and just go back to basics.


    The Deville I have might be able to bypass the power amp, so maybe I can use the speaker alone with the Kemper?

    Quote from bshaw92

    Before you give up completely on the FRFR try having a small reverb always on to give you the feeling of some air moving as you would hear with a cabinet. I learned this with another product and have been adding it ever since. When you rake the strings you will get that slight echo reverberation that you get when your cabinet is loud. Just another thought that has made noticeable results for me.

    I always have reverb on, I love reverb!

    Quote from creative360

    I love my Kemper, but the visceral experience is still very different—different enough that it's not necessarily only about solving a problem, or the sound ... The smell, the feel of the old tolex, the looks .. whatever, it's different. An old Deluxe, maybe a brown one, and a simple old drive, since if we're honest even old Deluxes are too loud for most small gigs, is a benchmark rig, even today. Yes I use the Kemper every day but I just don't see how anyone can argue with someone who's vibing on his smelly old Fender amp. Those things are incredible.

    +1

    Never too old for rock'n'roll

    Like 1
    Quote

    I think overall, all the FRFR solutions sound somewhat similar.


    That is the point, isn't it? If you meet the criteria of full range with flat response the result should sound very similar,
    regardless of manufacturer. Differences should be minimal, except in the case of poor quality implementation of the design.