Using the Kemper with FRFR live

    I have to wonder how much of the "amp in the room" (other than the smell ;) ) is our tendency to like sounds that are louder.


    I have yet to hear an "amp in the room" that compares to my Kemper rig through my full PA. Of course, in this case, the full PA is a pair of DSR112's over a pair of PRX618XLF's .... so the tables are completely turned on the now flimsy sounding 4x12 cab when it comes to output.... especially down low.


    Micing even great sounding tube amps doesn't seem to get the same FOH sound .... at least to my ears.


    On stage ..... quite different.


    Tube amps are powerful. They are designed to really punch out peak power (thus the huge transformers in them that makes them such a treat to move around).


    No offense to those here that prefer the "amp in the room" feeling. I am just wondering if what we all like about it is "my guitar is really blasting .... in the room" feeling.


    Thoughts?

    I just prefer the sound of an amp behind me. That's how a guitar is meant to sound.


    I would always use my Kemper to record because it does what I can't do, which is have a driven amp at any volume, at any time and have it sound exactly the same, but it doesn't sound or feel like an amp when I play live with it. For me it's lacking. It absolutely nails recording for me, it's amazing.


    A loud amp in the room is how it's meant to be, in my opinion.


    This has been discussed to death here anyway.

    If you have a powered KPA you can just plug the KPA into the speaker of your amp (amp OFF). There's a setting in the Output section to disable the Cab simulation for that feed (since your speaker will be doing that).


    That's what I do. My amp is an open back combo with a pair of Celestion V30s and the KPA sounds great through them.

    If it's open-backed then you can get at the speakers, so even if it's hard-wired you can have a jack/socket retrofitted so you can redirect the speaker to the KPA. I've attached a pic of mine (says Use First above it). The speaker plugs into the back of the amp with a phone plug, so I created a speaker cable with a phone plug on one end and a phone socket on the other, so I unplug the speaker from the amp and plug it into that cable that's plugged into the KPA Speaker Out.




    Really important considerations:


    1) If you do that you need to make sure you don't try to use the tube amp without the speaker plugged in because you can damage the amp running with no load. Might pay to make a little sign that you can blue-tack next to the power switch on your amp when you have it unplugged.


    2) The cable that you use from the KPA to the speaker MUST be suitable speaker cable. A guitar cable will fry with that kind of signal passing through it.


    @PhilUK84


    Can you really "do" the ampintheroom;I mean the venues you´re playing..can you open your 25w or 40w tube amp as loud as it needs to sound good;Will your drummer be allowed to play as loud as he needs to cope with your amp;I could go on asking but you already know what I mean..


    Whenever I try to see the KPA as a tool it works and sounds great..


    Whenever I miss my ampintheroom and try to compensate with the KPA everything breaks down..


    For me it is all in my head.And at some point many years ago I realised that gearwise we sometimes have to "learn to love it" and to stop thinking.To much thinking kills rocknroll.. ;)

    Quote from Finally

    If it's open-backed then you can get at the speakers, so even if it's hard-wired you can have a jack/socket retrofitted so you can redirect the speaker to the KPA.

    Let me have a look at it tomorrow. It's being revalved at the moment. Thanks!



    Of course. Even if you're playing at a moderate volume a real amp sounds and feels completely different to the Kemper. Put a good pedal in front of it and you can drive it early and it sounds great at nearly all volumes.


    I've really tried. I've had the CLR, the Q12, the Matrix FR212 and now the Matrix FR10p. I've had two remotes. I've gone through the PA, through Mesa rectocabs and Orange PPC212's. I just like the sound of a real amp much more. It just sounds sterile to me when playing loud and proud with a Kemper and I'm not satisfied. I know that it's very similar to the miked amp but I always have that amp behind me so I just prefer having it. I cannot hear a difference when recording, it's amazing, and I love it for home jamming, but it's just not for me when playing live with my band.


    I just have to accept it now and read this thread the next time I decide I wanna try it, because this keeps happening lol.

    @PhilUK84


    It is good that you are so sure about your decision..


    For me personally live micing is a thing of the past and I like it this way.Great achievment.Just plug in into the singers PA or the small FOH and all good..me likes this.. :thumbup:


    That being said I am an absolute tube guy which hated his early modeler experiences (POD).I hated this so much that I never tried again untill the KPA and again a good friend of mine "urged" me give it a try since I was all "meh..just one more nice (digital) try.."


    I spent a lot of energy for many years carrying around expensive and heavy tube rigs even to smaller venues and I went always mad when other guys questioned this mentality ("great sound first,bones second" was my answer)..


    Anyway..whatever one makes playing better.. :)

    Your voyage to the Kemper sounds very much like mine.


    I feel as if "the feel" people like so much about an "amp in the room" is the stage filling volume a decent tube amp brings to the table. Don't get me wrong .... I like it too. Gets the old solder to stand up and salute every time ;)


    .... but once I bring the volume down to a setting that would be appropriate to most venue's ..... and mic the cab to avoid having a very directional beaming to only part of the audience .... the KPA really does sound better ..... at least to my ears than any tube amp I have ever used.


    For reference, I used to lug around a VHT UL with a 4x12 slant cab and a 2x12 fat bottom. Man, let me tell you, those old VHT cabs are HEAVY.


    I agree with your sediments though. If you need that feel on the stage to be inspired, then by all means, stick with the amp on stage.


    I would say that when I have gotten amp stands for guitar players and had their amp (or cab) pointed at their face, they don't like that either. It has to be behind them opened up enough that you can hear it while facing away from the amp clearly. Unfortunately, at this volume, in most venues, the amp has completely buried the rest of the band and filled every vocal mic with guitar.


    Lots of bands play this way though, so I can't simply ignore the value of such a setup. In fact, I am in the minority of guitar players who use IEM's and play a Kemper (the very slight sliver of a minority btw).

    I'm in the same boat. It just sounds better live, from a whole band perspective, rather than the "guitarist is the center of the universe" way of the past. Listen to your customers. :)

    @OneEng1


    This is indeed simple..whatever someone needs to play better..


    I always like to compare (making) music to food and sex..there is indeed no logical "why do you do this..it is not good for you" and what seems odd to you may be the only thing I need right now.


    Carrying around tons of tube gear seemed crazy to a lot of musicians I met..and when someone told me "it is all about the UI" and the future is about xyz bullshit I always went mad (and actually still do) because I believe this non-basic thinking has already destroyed a big part of good music during the last 20 years..


    Anyway..


    For me the KPA sounds "basic",raw and rough..not less than a miced tube amp.This is all I care about and exactly there I stop "to think"..the fact that I can do things with the KPA live on all sizes of different stages that I could never do with tube amps(saturated tube sound with very good fx on a "silent stage" in a small coffee bar) is just amazing..


    But I understand what @PhilUK needs to play better and you just cant argue about "feel",not possible..the only thing that really matters..

    Yesterday, I played a gig an a bigger stage with a Marshall DSL 100 behind me and I have to admitt, I really loved the Sound on stage. It was miced and also sounded great through the PA as well. Back home I played a nice brandnew Gibson Standard High Performance 2017 through my KPA profiles of the DSL 100 and my Yamaha dxr10 and to me it does not even sound close. I think the original Marshall tube amp sounds way better than the KPA. Maybe I can not get used to that Hi-Fi-sound of the KPA.


    Since I am new to the KPA-world I played quite a bit with the Amp. I also bought a few profiles, but I am not convinced that I will use the KPA live for some reason I have problems with the gain and crunch sounds. They sound somehow artificial to me. But maybe I Need to gather more experience with the KPA and things will change.


    So far I would prefer a tube amp for live gigs and the KPA for recordings as it gives you a lot of options.


    bbb

    It' s only Rock n Roll, but I like it :D:thumbup:<3

    Quote from creative360

    I've still never seen or heard a clip of anything like what Vince Gill or Mark Knopfler or even Landau or Carlton or Ford or Boz Skaggs (!) might do

    Why the exclamatory "Boz(!)"???? Yeah, I know he's done some disco-soulish pop that many of us may dislike, but also some very good blues and roots stuff, besides having played with Steve Miller in the 60s. Sure, he's no Carlton or Ford, but he's a good player with a good voice, which is a statement I suppose you will agree to. :thumbup::thumbup:

    Never too old for rock'n'roll

    Like 2

    I've been playing and gigging a PRS Custom 50 combo (and a H before that) for a few years. In our studio/practice/gig room I have a 2x12 attached for a 3x12 experience. We are a 4 piece/two guitar cover band.
    I dearly love the visceral grunty/chunky rhythm sounds I get from those amps.
    I have practiced twice now with the Kemper through my old Fender PA and have been struggling to get that earthy sound back, or close to it. That being said, one of our greatest enemies has been to get and keep sonic separation between our two guitars. The Kemper so far has been stellar for this. A trusted friend in the audience was very complimentary about how well we were all heard.
    A couple of days ago I got a Yamaha DXR10 and have been tweaking profiles at home to get ready for next practice, and I'm really liking what I hear. I am totally willing to give up a little pant leg flapping in order to improve the sound the audience hears.
    Wish me luck! :D