For millionth time... Why is Kemper profiles so trebly/fizzy??

  • I’d say that the issue appears to be in the transient. In Dimi’s video you really hear the string and pick noise in the Kemper version but they’re much smoother or less pronounced with the real amp.


    Guys, go check it out, it’s a few pages back now, it’s a direct comparison side by side the profiled amp vs the Kemper.

    What really matters more is if someone can enjoy the product and find it inspirational despite its limitation. If not, then it's just a waste of time. When I spent the nice sum of money to get the Kemper, I had in mind that it would go back in less than a week if I couldn't get inspired and if I wasn't able to find usable tones. What's the point in focusing on situations where someone can't get past differences that many have already acknowledged and decided that they're insignificant .


    I'd rather look at some of those who are floored by their own results who are making great music using the Kemper as a tool successfully so they can inspire me to do the same with all due respect to Dimi.


    Let's say the KPA is 95% there, that's good enough for many and as I've followed this modeling thing, I've heard amazing music with unbelievable realistic guitar tone produced by the Kemper better to my ears than any other modeler. If these users are capable of getting these results, I want to focus on that and not on the negative or short comings. Does that make sense?


    I happen to think that @Cederick the original poster is looking for help (he wrote "Help Me!" ) because he knows and he has heard how other have produced great records with the Kemper. So focusing on the negative isn't doing him any good really. How's focusing on Kempers negative or short coming going to help him? It's like saying to him, oh don't worry the Kemper isn't good enough for that!! Well, it's still a lot easier than miking his own amp and if some of the successful users did chime in, I'm sure it would be of help but since they don't have problems, many don't even read this forum. Some who might read, could also not want to give out their secrets, Kind of like Eddy Van Halen in his early days of Tapping when he had his back to the audience. so they don't discover the tapping.

    Edited 2 times, last by Dean_R ().

  • It’s as predictable as it is sad to see where every open discussion on profiling woes and improvements ends up.

  • Guys: I use the kemper for music. A lot. It just became a new tool to do the same, once I got it. If you are ever in Finland, give me a ring and I'll let you know where to come see me play, if you are interested :) In other words: just because I do tests, doesn't mean I don't do music, that this somehow stops me from doing so.


    It's just that I enjoy the "testing" side of things as well, in which cases you must be critical. I had to learn to do so in order to work with people with more engineering skills than myself. I am not someone with some magical ear either or some super producer with mixing skills.. Or die-hard tube defender.


    I just like art and need to be engaged in it, in one way or another, to survive. Testing is just small part of it, mostly tech development wise and for its own sake. We tend to be interested in these things, whether praising kemper or being critical of it.


    All that said I agree that, for many people, focusing too much on the "engineering" side of things can take out the joy out of doing music. Not everybody needs to do that or care about tests. If it wasn't for such a process we wouldn't have had kemper to begin with, of course, but there is still a difference between doing music and engineering and testing.


    My more "on topic" post is a a few posts back where I try to be constructive about refining process. If Cederick is interested, I can go do profiles myself and refine them using any guitar tracks he may have, in a way that I believe can work and help him out. It'd have to wait for a bit, because I'm modding my main amp now, and I wanna use that for a ton of profiles to come, but I'm willing to put in time for this because 1) he's an amazing player and it inspires me that he cares as much about tone 2) I think it's possible to get these tones right with kemper, at large.


    :)

    Edited 2 times, last by Dimi84 ().

  • It’s as predictable as it is sad to see where every open discussion on profiling woes and improvements ends up.

    Not true at all, if you read the heading of the opening post without reading the body of the opening thread, you can mistakenly misunderstand it as an "open discussion on profiling woes" but if you read the body of the opening post you will clearly see that it's about @Cederick asking for help getting his tracks to sound same as other tracks that he provided and he specifically wrote "Help me out".


    How does discussing profiling woes address the topic of helping him out? It really is a digression from the real topic if you ask me, no offense intended. You can actually clearly see it and notice that @Cederick is no longer posting because, he clearly realizes that it's no help to him talking about differences between profile and real amp, it might be a consolation that he's not the only one or something.


    It's actually disappointing that this gets missed and it doesn't reflect well on the community because I have no doubt that the Kemper is very well capable of the tones he requested, but instead the topic digresses into all of this.

  • don't let your gear stop you ... honestly ...
    there is sometimes fizz and ther are sometime differencies ... BUT there are people who made amazing music with the first pod or mediocre vsts ...


    Check the stock challenge out ...

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    stock cubase vsts
    and no whining :D


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  • I thought this was interesting, https://www.thegearpage.net/bo…fizzerator.1774798/page-2, for any one that doesn’t know James Brown was the designer of the 5150, he worked directly with Eddie all the way through the amp. He calls fizz sizzle and even created a defizzerator for amps which is a high pass filter, anyway his explanation of the 5150 was cool


    “The 5150 does have a lot of sizzle-ey highs, and part of that was Eddie liked how it cleaned up....he didn't play it at low volumes, and at high master volume settings that sizzle gets clipped away by the power amp rails. So you don't hear it nearly as much, UNTIL you turn the guitar down, which he does all the time and doesn't want it to sound muddy in any way. But of course then it's very fizzy at low volumes. The DeFizzerator fixes that, and you could accomplish it all kinds of ways in the amp, but this is a simple plug in pedal you can just patch in without shipping your amp around.


    James“

  • With these things mentioned to be helpful, I express my negativity with the kemper so they are aware of the issues, if kemper is done and feel the unit is 100% perfect then I’ll trade get a two notes load box and call it a day, I’m willing to stay in if profiling is perfected to raw amp tone. I di profile and comparing to the amp even refining I’m not satisfied and see the closeness but also the distance

  • With these things mentioned to be helpful, I express my negativity with the kemper so they are aware of the issues, if kemper is done and feel the unit is 100% perfect then I’ll trade get a two notes load box and call it a day

    Per the interview posted on this thread with Christoph to their response to Dimi when he highlighted sonic differences (upon the many others who have broached profiling shortcomings this past year), the Kemper team doesn’t seem interested in altering the profiling algorithm at all. If they are working on improvements, they aren’t saying, but my bet is they are content with it as-is.

  • It’s still a great piece of kit even if imperfect (as all its competitors are, as well). For all the flack Fractal gets here, they at least always seem earnest in improving their core modeling. Since the KPA hangs its hat on its accurate profiling, the core concern should be in perfecting this.

  • That’s the thing fractal is always trying to improve and their tone match isn’t that Farr off, they will need to release another version to be perfect but seems they will be the only digital amp company at that time if kemper is happy with being under par in my opinion

  • Per the interview posted on this thread with Christoph to their response to Dimi when he highlighted sonic differences (upon the many others who have broached profiling shortcomings this past year), the Kemper team doesn’t seem interested in altering the profiling algorithm at all. If they are working on improvements, they aren’t saying, but my bet is they are content with it as-is.

    According to this video, the profiling process has been optimized since that interview at least once. Jump to 8:23:


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  • Which is a tad odd since the company line on the forum has long been that no profiling algorithm changes have occurred since its release. Early adopters have noted a low-end frequency correction in a very early update, but even this is officially disputed.

  • “The 5150 does have a lot of sizzle-ey highs, and part of that was Eddie liked how it cleaned up....he didn't play it at low volumes, and at high master volume settings that sizzle gets clipped away by the power amp rails. So you don't hear it nearly as much, UNTIL you turn the guitar down, which he does all the time and doesn't want it to sound muddy in any way. But of course then it's very fizzy at low volumes. The DeFizzerator fixes that, and you could accomplish it all kinds of ways in the amp, but this is a simple plug in pedal you can just patch in without shipping your amp around.


    James“

    You can do that with the Kemper to any profile using the Ducking Feature or parameter found in EQ and in many other effects. I was actually just doing it right now on a profile where I made an eq preset to kill the fizz and using the ducking around negative 2. When you play the guitar at full volume the EQ is present in the signal with minimal fizz if any, but when you lower it it cleans up and the sizzle comes back. It's brilliant because you can reverse this effect if you need to by setting the ducking at + 2.


    If people spend the time reading the manual and forgetting about how other products work and stop viewing the Kemper as the tired old mediocre paradigm , they would really be more than pleasantly surprised..


    I truly have no dog in the fight, I just want to play and enjoy guitar and the Kemper is simply ahead of its time no doubt about it.


    People are crying for an editor right now, and I bet you that I will do almost 99% of the tasks much faster than any editor even if an editor was released, that goes to many Kemper users who take the time and approach it with an open mind.


    The profiling is more than good enough, and the Kemper fizz is closer to the fizz of real tube amps than anything I tried and you can hear it when you profile your own amps. Some folks exaggerate things unintentionally because they just do. I tested the profiler the first week on my tube amps and when I got as close as it did, I was almost in disbelief. I said to myself with minor EQ this thing sounds and feel almost exactly like the real deal, who gives a crap about 5% and might be even less if you really want to get things done..

    Edited once, last by Dean_R ().

  • Which is a tad odd since the company line on the forum has long been that no profiling algorithm changes have occurred since its release. Early adopters have noted a low-end frequency correction in a very early update, but even this is officially disputed.

    Well, Thomas Wendt is still their public relations guy. Perhaps he mentioned it and wasn't supposed to, but I'd be apt to take his word for it.

  • I don’t need an editor, I’ve been the last guy to ever derail them from perfecting their product, but I hate having an all in solution that needs outboard gear to sound right like a simple od pedal and to me the high end isn’t as annoying as the depth it doesent cover

  • I don’t need an editor, I’ve been the last guy to ever derail them from perfecting their product, but I hate having an all in solution that needs outboard gear to sound right like a simple od pedal and to me the high end isn’t as annoying as the depth it doesent cover

    Are you referring to fizz?