For millionth time... Why is Kemper profiles so trebly/fizzy??

Quote from MementoMori

Still, at a certain point some of the things brought up are absolutely what Kemper should invest in improving rather than forum members writing pages trying different techniques and strategies that aren't wholly satisfactory.

Maybe, but it goes without saying what Kemper does (or doesn't do) is beyond our control.

I got a lot of really good info out of this,,, altho a tuff read,, at times,, and,,yes , you can lead a horse to water,,,, but you can't make him put his own saddle on,,,

Quote from ColdFrixion

There were any number of helpful suggestions and explanations as to why there was a difference between the two samples Cedrick posted in the OP, but with all due respect to him, he wasn't open to a number of them. For instance, he didn't like the idea of using a different cab. He also wasn't really open to the idea of tone matching because he didn't want to use tones that have been EQ matched in his projects. Cedrick also mentioned the lack of low-end in a lot of Kemper profiles, to wit I mentioned adding it back in with a Studio EQ. Some (including myself) mentioned that mic and mic positioning play a huge roll in explaining the differences between his original samples, and it was also suggested that most profiles are created by hobbyists while most commercial recordings are created by professionals. Those are just a few examples. Needless to say, there have been some super useful suggestions and rational explanations in this thread. As the old saying goes, you can lead a horse to water...

I'm sure if we were discussing recording amps, the complaint would have been too boomy and bass, too much hiss, etc.

Recording is not just like going direct into your interface, guys. Some of the best results I've seen on this forum with the Kemper, for example, have been heavily processed using outboard gear and other studio wizardry.

Also, from my experience, though I hate to do it, it pays to tweak profiles that you like rather than just using them blindly, especially if you're going to record. Don't just listen through your monitors, plug a pair of headphones into your interface, record for a bit with your Kemper and then listen back to the audio and take decisions with respect to EQ, noise gate, cab parameters, etc.

Of course, you should do this AFTER you have laid down your drums, so that you can settle on a tone based on one of the biggest components of your sound. Sure, you can change the drum sound later. But it's important to FIRST fix the drum sound and maybe even the bass sound before putting down the guitar sound. Otherwise, you will be taking a decision in isolation.

I can also highly recommend creating your own profiles where possible during the recording process. This will give you a snapshot of the sound you are using for future reference and purposes. It will also come to the rescue in case you have to patch up some part of your recording later on which you didn't catch at first.

Quote from MementoMori

I think the overused "cuts through the mix" and "mix ready" taglines are the Kemper equivalent to food being packaged as "gourmet". What mix? Whose mix? It's basically an eye-flashing term used to help sell profiles.

"Mix-friendly" profiles are made with a specific mix in mind, but if you don't play or want that style, it's not really "mix-friendly" anyway.

Yes, but I have not discounted the Kemper versus other products yet. If you look at guys like Sinmix or Ola put out these well mixed, huge sounding tracks and then you find your own mix with the same profiles sounds like mud or a fizzy mix, it’s easy to get disheartened. But if you look at some of the videos like the new Mooer multi-FX, where it sounds as good as a top end model let, you realize that it’s all studio trickery. That,s how some guys do better mixes with PODs than people with Kempers.

So in the end, based on the thread topic, I’d say, “Cedric, put your back into it. If a guy can do it with a Mooer, you can definitely do it with a Kemper.”

Okay, here's a quick recording to show a couple things:
1). There are three OD's stacked in front of the Kemper (Morning Glory>Klon KTR>JHS808)
2). This is an MBritt Matchless profile set to edge of breakup
3). Cab is an IR blend I made from 6 different mic positions using Redwirez Matchless ESD2x12 cab IRs
4). Room reverb from a BigSky in the Kemper's stereo loop
5). Studio EQ in stomp slot 7, with .5db boosts at 330hz and 740hz (there are NO LOW/HIGH cuts engaged)
6). Guitar is my Suhr Tele with the stock single coil bridge pickup
7). I have relatively small hands, and this song is a big stretch, so go easy on the playing (also, it was late, and it's not meant to be a direct copy of the song structure... was just messing around with the intro)

*This is direct into my Apollo Twin then into Logic with ZERO post processing.

Even with 3 OD's stacked into the Kemper, and with a single coil guitar, and with an absence of an EQ cut above 10khz, this is not fizzy. I think there may be something in the stock cabs that leads to some fizziness in some cases, and for some reason, a quality IR eliminates it.

https://soundcloud.com/oyce89976/lay-it-down/s-b6JNd
(Just realized I don't know how to embed Soundcloud files into a post here, so hopefully the link works)

I bought a JBL passive PA speaker thinking I would use the powered output. That does NOT sound good. I now know it's obviously meant to go to a conventional speaker cabinet. Fizzy does not do justice to the JBL sound.

Quote from boyce89976

Okay, here's a quick recording to show a couple things:
1). There are three OD's stacked in front of the Kemper (Morning Glory>Klon KTR>JHS808)
2). This is an MBritt Matchless profile set to edge of breakup
3). Cab is an IR blend I made from 6 different mic positions using Redwirez Matchless ESD2x12 cab IRs
4). Room reverb from a BigSky in the Kemper's stereo loop
5). Studio EQ in stomp slot 7, with .5db boosts at 330hz and 740hz (there are NO LOW/HIGH cuts engaged)
6). Guitar is my Suhr Tele with the stock single coil bridge pickup
7). I have relatively small hands, and this song is a big stretch, so go easy on the playing (also, it was late, and it's not meant to be a direct copy of the song structure... was just messing around with the intro)

Even with 3 OD's stacked into the Kemper, and with a single coil guitar, and with an absence of an EQ cut above 10khz, this is not fizzy. I think there may be something in the stock cabs that leads to some fizziness in some cases, and for some reason, a quality IR eliminates it.

https://soundcloud.com/oyce89976/lay-it-down/s-b6JNd
(Just realized I don't know how to embed Soundcloud files into a post here, so hopefully the link works)

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Private clips can't be embedded on most sites, soundcloud doesn't let the link appear.

As far as that clip, didn't hear any fizz myself.

Quote from johnboyx1

I bought a JBL passive PA speaker thinking I would use the powered output. That does NOT sound good. I now know it's obviously meant to go to a conventional speaker cabinet. Fizzy does not do justice to the JBL sound.

The powered monitor out can indeed be used for this. Just make sure you have the option of Cabs Off disabled in the Output menu. If it sounds bad, it’s either a crappy profile or the speaker itself...

Quote from nightlight

Private clips can't be embedded on most sites, soundcloud doesn't let the link appear.

As far as that clip, didn't hear any fizz myself.

That makes sense!

Quote from Dimi84

Ultimately yes, even though user demand can affect direction. There's been massive demand about editor and we still dunno if there ever will be one.
On the OP topic, just like you said, I think kemper can more or less do the tones ok if the right approach is taken.

Out of all of the mixes I've heard with the top tier modelers, the Kemper generally seems to sit better in a mix than the other modelers overall, in my opinion. That isn't to say that the Axe FX, Helix or the like can't be made to sit well, but for whatever reason Kemper guitar tracks generally sit really well in a mix.

Quote from ColdFrixion

Out of all of the mixes I've heard with the top tier modelers, the Kemper generally seems to sit better in a mix than the other modelers overall, in my opinion. That isn't to say that the Axe FX, Helix or the like can't be made to sit well, but for whatever reason Kemper guitar tracks generally sit really well in a mix.

I haven't used an AXE FX, but have used both Kemper and Helix, and for me, it was Kemper hands down. It was literally plug in and play, where the Helix took a TON of tweaking to get something that I thought was usable. The biggest differences between the two for me:
- The amount of tweaking required to get a usable tone (Kemper: none / Helix: a lot)
- Feel (Kemper by a landslide)
- Ease of use - at first Helix, but Kemper is very intuitive
- And, most importantly to me, the "weight" the notes carry live - how it sits in a live mix. It's as if the Kemper is really moving the air like a real amp, landslide winner in this category. I didn't get that with the Helix. With Helix, it sounded fine in my IEMs, but out front was thin and weak.

Quote from Dimi84

@ColdFrixion could be, because of high mid/lack of low mid emphasis. That is what I see. Many People tend to prefer a more "cutting" tone. Kemper generally does that to source tone. It's subtle but it does make a difference depending on the scenario. Not that you cannot emulate that an axe fx too -- definitely possible. Helix less so.

Most of the mixes I hear from Axe FX and Helix users tend to sound slightly thin and have more prominence in the high end, whereas many of the Kemper mixes I hear are a bit more meaty and have a warmer / smoother high end. I don't necessarily think it has as much to do with the 1dB low-end loss, as I wouldn't doubt a number of mixes are post produced and more low-end is removed during the mixing phase than what's removed during the profiling process.

go to 3:30 for the comparison