Can we all agree on a list of 5 classic OD we would wish

  • My original thread was the oldest and specific to the Klon. Don't really see the point of merging it with a discussion thread involving other overdrives.

    Get over it. Whining doesn't change anything to the better.

    Think for yourself, or others will think for you wihout thinking of you

    Henry David Thoreau

  • Bump for the Klon in the Kemper. I disagree with the mods merging my Klon thread with this one, as my thread was about a specific overdrive, and had a lot of upvotes.

    As I’ve said several times in the past, I just don’t think models of individual OD pedals is the way Kemper is likely to go if/when they issue updated OD effects.


    The way they approached the Delays and Reverbs suggests that they are more likely to create some sort of super flexible generic model which users can tailor to their own requirements. This methodology would conceivably allow us to create our own versions of Koln, TS etc.


    I could be wrong but it just seems much more Kemper’s style to do it this way.

  • As I’ve said several times in the past, I just don’t think models of individual OD pedals is the way Kemper is likely to go if/when they issue updated OD effects.


    The way they approached the Delays and Reverbs suggests that they are more likely to create some sort of super flexible generic model which users can tailor to their own requirements. This methodology would conceivably allow us to create our own versions of Koln, TS etc.


    I could be wrong but it just seems much more Kemper’s style to do it this way.

    I think ODs are harder to cover with a flexible generic model than Delays or Reverbs... for the same reason there's tens of thousands of amp profiles to cover the different amp distortion and EQ characteristics, rather than just a flexible generic amp model.


    That said, what could be some knob parameters that would allow for such a flexible generic model? Here's some I thought of for fun:


    Characteristic EQ (TS Mid Hump - BB Flat - Treble booster)

    Clipping (Asymmetrical - Symmetrical - Asymmetrical )

    Clipper (Soft - Hard)

    Cascading Stages of Gain (1 - Multi)


    Along with bass, mid, treb, pres EQ of course.


    I think that would cover a lot of ground. Anything else that might be cool?

  • I think this is a great idea, where you'd have a basic framework and you could dial in your characteristics you like.


    However I would reduce the list above to:

    EQ, with some control over the frequency ranges and bandwidths and placements in the frequency spectrum (treble pre, bass post, etc)

    Clipping (above reminds me of the Timmy) Asymm, Symm, soft/hard attribute.

    Gain ( I think this is great, but remember this is for overdrive, so just a normal or slightly enhanced gain range)

    Compression control

    Blend control (dry vs not-dry :) )


    As someone who has literally had hundreds of OD pedals, I think I would prefer the flexibility of above versus having a specific

    product.


    I have heard that you can stick ODs in front of the KPA.. Haven't tried it tho..


    Oh, my favorite ODs are (for now):

    Klon: (and Klon variants Tumni, RYRA, Archer(s))

    TS9(808): and variants (Maxon 808 Apex, TS808DX (w/boost channel)

    Timmys: V2 and V3

    OCD

    Wampler Paisley Deluxe/Brent Mason Hot Wired



    You could do the same with fuzzes and distortions (I classify them differently)

  • Soft clipper circuits are called ODs. Hard clippers are distortions. There's more variety in fuzzes, but they're most popularly asymmetric soft-hard clippers.


    If a Clipper knob parameter could be made to blend between let's say Soft - Hard - Fuzz (with a lotta Kemper sound design expertise behind the scenes), that'd be a very flexible generic distortion. I think it'd be cool and very Kemper-like instead of having separate OD, Distortion, and Fuzz effects.

  • Clipping diodes for some, germanium, silicon, LED, etc.

  • I think ODs are harder to cover with a flexible generic model than Delays or Reverbs... for the same reason there's tens of thousands of amp profiles to cover the different amp distortion and EQ characteristics, rather than just a flexible generic amp model.

    I would tend to think the opposite. There are only a handful of OD/Distortion circuits out there. All the thousands of pedals are really just minor tweaks to component values so creating a single flexible model should be much easier than creating the level of flexibility they managed within the Reverbs and Delays.

  • I would tend to think the opposite. There are only a handful of OD/Distortion circuits out there. All the thousands of pedals are really just minor tweaks to component values so creating a single flexible model should be much easier than creating the level of flexibility they managed within the Reverbs and Delays.

    Totally agree ( although not clever enough to have thought of it myself :) ).


    The "magic" of these pedals is not some mythical voodoo but variations in those circuits. I would expect them to look at what makes Fuzz, distortion and OD pedals ( as has been mentioned above), what makes germanium and silicon sound different and have a parameter for it etc.


    From that, similar to the Wah's, I would then expect some people to make their own presets that mimic Klon's Tube screamers etc.

  • Totally agree ( although not clever enough to have thought of it myself :) ).


    The "magic" of these pedals is not some mythical voodoo but variations in those circuits. I would expect them to look at what makes Fuzz, distortion and OD pedals ( as has been mentioned above), what makes germanium and silicon sound different and have a parameter for it etc.


    From that, similar to the Wah's, I would then expect some people to make their own presets that mimic Klon's Tube screamers etc.

    There's no difference between germanium and silicon.

    Think for yourself, or others will think for you wihout thinking of you

    Henry David Thoreau

  • There's no difference between germanium and silicon.

    Shows how much I know...I stopped researching pedals and bucket bridge chips and fasel inductors ( yes I know nothing to do with distortion circuits) years ago so I know very little about clipping diodes.


    Yes it was a poor example but hopefully the point still made...

  • The best Option for me would be like this:

    Making a (preamp-)profile of a discrete Overdrive-, distortion- or Fuzz-stomp.

    Getting/downloading a piece of "Kemper-converting-Software" (like formerly the "Cab-maker") to convert this kipr-file and implement it into the "Share-Folder" and Import it via USB-Stick into the Profiler.:love::thumbup:


    This also would allow to import different Stomp-Settings and didn't Need to "model" the Stomp-device.

  • There's no difference between germanium and silicon.

    In what context?? As a rectifier or as a toneshaping (clipping circuit)? There are definitely differences between the two, and without deep diving into the minutae of electrical characteristics of each, maybe not huge differences, but they are different..


    I wonder why nobody has experimented with Selenium diodes...

  • Totally agree ( although not clever enough to have thought of it myself :) ).


    The "magic" of these pedals is not some mythical voodoo but variations in those circuits. I would expect them to look at what makes Fuzz, distortion and OD pedals ( as has been mentioned above), what makes germanium and silicon sound different and have a parameter for it etc.


    From that, similar to the Wah's, I would then expect some people to make their own presets that mimic Klon's Tube screamers etc.

    I agree to agree.. But something equally important is the variation in the components in these same effects, where manufacturing tolerances are as high as +/- 20% so variances there can make things sound different to much greater degrees in the same pedal.. I have seen Marshall amps that have a "special something" and others of same model and year were not so nice.. Hence "magic". Component variance?? Aging and drift? Most likely.. My understanding of the physics of these changes are far beyond my understanding.. So many little details that can make huge changes.. Somebody mentioned about there being only a few basic designs where they vary between a few components for the same concepts to make a new model.. to get a particular sound.. I think that would be the perfect model, myself.. Not unlike this nifty gizmo I just bought..


    I don't know about you guys, but thru many years I have noticed that today something can sound like a chorus of angels and tomorrow the EXACT same setup sounds like junk...


    I would scoop up a swiss-army knife of ODs instead of buying hundreds of them to chase a tone.. If I could build and tweak this mythical pedal to where "I" like it and it is possibly pleasing to others, and others could do the same, I would be on a tropical island enjoying fruity drinks, counting my kilo-dollars.. :) Of course with my Kemper and a small generator... And UPS delivery for all the other crap I need to buy now to add to this rascallion.. Damn, just when I thought I was out...


    :)


    -D

  • Soft clipper circuits are called ODs. Hard clippers are distortions. There's more variety in fuzzes, but they're most popularly asymmetric soft-hard clippers.

    There are exceptions to this : the klon which is called an Overdrive actually uses hard clipping (=diodes).

  • As I’ve said several times in the past, I just don’t think models of individual OD pedals is the way Kemper is likely to go if/when they issue updated OD effects.


    The way they approached the Delays and Reverbs suggests that they are more likely to create some sort of super flexible generic model which users can tailor to their own requirements. This methodology would conceivably allow us to create our own versions of Koln, TS etc.


    I could be wrong but it just seems much more Kemper’s style to do it this way.

    Yep - that makes a LOT of sense....

  • I think that's the point...its the sound outcome we care about not what makes up that sound as there are so many variables.


    We all know that old strats can sound very different, a fair proportion due to the fact that the pickups were handwound and therefore inconsistent. as a result some would be Ok and some accidentally glorious. But its why the resultant sound is better...in those cases its often a touch more gain and "fullness" i.e. mid. Its obviously more complex than that but why having the right parameters is better than trying to "profile" or model a great pedal.


    The downside is it requires tweaking...


    BTW totally agree on the fab sound one day, junk the next...I have an explanation, which is highly scientific:

    1) If its a valve map, their sound can change due to temp etc..

    ...or more common ( and proven by the KPA whose sound should be consistent

    2) We are fussy buggers who can;t make our minds up :)


    Joking aside I believe our perception of a sound is way more variable than changing amps, cabs, IR's. I honestly though that because the KPA takes away many of the variables, that I could get a sound I hear on youtube, use the same settings through similar guitar and gear and it would sound 90% the same.....nope! Also many people here say "go use such and such profile...I try it and think they must be deaf - but I know they are not.


    I had Andy James profiles in my KPA...sounded pants and yet he is amazing and so is his sound.

  • Joking aside I believe our perception of a sound is way more variable than changing amps, cabs, IR's. I honestly though that because the KPA takes away many of the variables, that I could get a sound I hear on youtube, use the same settings through similar guitar and gear and it would sound 90% the same.....nope! Also many people here say "go use such and such profile...I try it and think they must be deaf - but I know they are not.


    I had Andy James profiles in my KPA...sounded pants and yet he is amazing and so is his sound.

    I agree 110%..


    Ok two questions..


    1) "sounded pants"? What is that? (good/bad/??) I thought to myself, this has to be a UK expression.. My wife's family is from Sidcup/Bexley in Kent. We spent some time over there and I couldn't get over all the terms and expressions. Loved it.. Of course I was considered to be just a tad above a hillbilly by them with my "Ah'll tell U wat..", "Hey hold my beer, and ya'll watch this.."


    2) On varying perceptions of sound.. While I applaude the effort of all the folks putting up sound clips on Youtube. I get bummed out because I knew the sound was colored by these crapola speakers I had.. I have it going thru the JBL monitors now, but the compression from the interwebs still messes it up..


    I guess I'll just have to drive to everybody's homes now to hear them in person!! LOL.. That's gonna be a challenge to get to all you folks down under!! :)

  • I guess I'll just have to drive to everybody's homes now to hear them in person!! LOL.. That's gonna be a challenge to get to all you folks down under!! :)

    German brew always in the fridge, so it'll be worth it, mate. :love:

    1) "sounded pants"? What is that? (good/bad/??) I thought to myself, this has to be a UK expression.

    Correct weight, Dave; UK. Means bad.


    American translation:

    Sounded like ass.