Studio and DI and merging.

    I'm starting to profile my collection of boutique amps. I've created a basic studio profile and a Do profile and then done a merged by copying the cab part onto the di profile.


    I'm now going to go through the process of profiling different setting parameters etc. so my question; Can I just do Di profiles at all these different settings and paste the same 'cabinet' from my original studio profile onto all these or do I have to do a studio and Di profile and then merge for each adjustment?


    cheers


    marcus

    You can do whatever you would like. If you are doing DI profiles then using your other profiled cabinet will work or an IR or another free cabinet.


    As long as you note them to be DI profiles and you like the way they sound all else is cake. You could also just upload DI with no cabinet and let people use what they want, but if you have a good cabinet with them then I would include it if it were me especially if it turns out how you wanted it to sound.


    The merged method is to create the DI profile then create a profile (studio) with the same settings and merge the two. If you did something similar and then saved your cab and used it most people would not complain. They probably won't anyway since they would be free. Good Luck.

    "More Guitar in the Monitors" :thumbup:

    Thanks, well I think the main point of the cab is that's the area where people don't do it properly and get bad profiles. As you can see I'm taking a lot of effort here to get the sound perfect. That u67 is worth $10,000 alone, not many people will have a mic that good or the pre's I'm using either and my 30 years of experience in the studio of micing amps etc :D


    After all this work I'm going to be selling these profiles at a fair price so they wont be free as you say :D I've too much invested in all this to give it away much as I'd like to , it's my living. Just the studio time alone to spend profiling will mount up.



    It really is a long process to do this properly.


    MC

    Quote from norburybrook

    not many people will have a mic that good or the pre's I'm using either and my 30 years of experience in the studio of micing amps etc

    Then the method described last is best.
    Make the DI profile.
    Use the same settings and create the Studio Profile, merge.
    Repeat with the next settings.


    What amps are you going to profile?

    "More Guitar in the Monitors" :thumbup:

    According to the manual, this should give you exactly what you want (I'm not taking responsibility if there IS a perceptible difference, or even if I remember everything correctly. :-)):


    Make a DI profile AND a Studio profile of the exact same setup and settings - and preferably one right after the other.


    Merge the profile exactly as described in the manual and save it.


    Make XX number of DI profiles at whatever settings you desire. Make sure you tweak them while the DI box is connected before taking the actual profile.


    Copy-paste the CAB from the MERGED profile onto the DI profiles, and SAVE them. (the amp/cab interaction should be baked into the amp portion of the DI profile, so you shouldn't lose any interaction - if the system works as it is intended to do).


    For all the profiles you do: KEEP THE CAB CONNECTED to the DI box.



    All this said, this will give you a number of different amp settings at just one mic setup - which may or may not be suitable for the specific amp settings.

    Quote from creative360

    Why not see your diligent approach through to the end. For however subtle or insignificant the differences, won't the amp/speaker interaction respond to varying settings on the amplifier? And shouldn't that be captured per profile? Certainly doesn't seem like it'll be great for business to advertise taking a shortcut straight out of the gate.

    Thanks, I was asking the question if the cab part is just a static IR and in that case it wouldn't matter once I'd got a profile of it whether I copied and pasted it onto every Di profile, which from a later reply seems to be the case. which then begs the question a profile then isn't giving you speaker break up? I've spent two days so far experimenting so I doubt you could say i'm taking short cuts!!!


    So I've been doing every profile twice just in case and then merging them.


    one thing I've run into when trying to do high volume setting on this amp is I',m getting the error saying external amp is clipping the profiler. I've got my levels down as low as I can and it's still saying that. Any ideas why? obviously this is a 100w amp is loud when you start turning it up. all levels to and from the mixer are fine so no clipping there, the kemper is at its-32db lowest setting but its still clipping.

    I'll also be profiling this rig :D Joey Landreth said it was the best amp he'd ever used. here it is in action.


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    Quote from norburybrook

    Thanks, I was asking the question if the cab part is just a static IR and in that case it wouldn't matter once I'd got a profile of it whether I copied and pasted it onto every Di profile, which from a later reply seems to be the case. which then begs the question a profile then isn't giving you speaker break up?

    Huh... Good question. I think the manual says something about the speaker breakup being part of the profile. But if it resides in the cab portion, then I guess the best way would be to take both DI and studio profiles for each setting and merge each one separately.
    Maybe @ckemper can chime in?

    Quote from norburybrook

    one thing I've run into when trying to do high volume setting on this amp is I',m getting the error saying external amp is clipping the profiler. I've got my levels down as low as I can and it's still saying that. Any ideas why? obviously this is a 100w amp is loud when you start turning it up. all levels to and from the mixer are fine so no clipping there, the kemper is at its-32db lowest setting but its still clipping.

    No idea - but try pulling down the level on the external mixer to see if that helps.

    Quote from creative360

    Dumble cleans. If you can get great clean profiles from both Dumbles through an EVM12L in that oval open back cabinet — several versions, or at least three where the amps are dialed in for say Strat neck pickup, 335 neck pickup and Tele ... that would be great. Maybe even some where you experiment with outboard (stomp or board) compression .. would be cool. A "Dumble Cleans" pack done well would be a big deal. Obviously the ODS would be a great pack on its own for those after that thing, but rich, singing cleans is holy grail. Good luck!

    There's an EVM 12L in that black and the cream cabs. They're not the oval backed ones though, the 2x12 in the first picture is the oval backed Dumble cab with G12-65's. The EVM 1x12 cabs are the Larry Carlton ones that are sealed and ported ....they have a thump like a 4x12 :D


    Regarding dialing in for various pickups; Is that literally when doing the final refining the profile process? can I t be done with a strat say then saved and then re done with a 335 or do you have to do the whole profile again for each pickup type? The manual isn't very good at explaining any of this I've found.


    Dumble cleans, that's an interesting idea. The wonderland/SSS amp I'm doing at the moment is just that actually, same as an ODS but with reverb and no extra gain stage, it's a real pity you can't profile the verb it's what makes this amp special IMHO.


    M

    Quote from norburybrook

    Regarding dialing in for various pickups; Is that literally when doing the final refining the profile process? can I t be done with a strat say then saved and then re done with a 335 or do you have to do the whole profile again for each pickup type? The manual isn't very good at explaining any of this I've found.

    Well, you would usually set up the amp to fit with the guitar, right? So if you're playing a Les Paul you wouldn't use the same amp settings as you would for a strat.
    At the least you'd make sure the settings work for both guitars (or whatever guitars you're looking to "support" with the tone).
    This is before even beginning to profile - just like you'd do if you were just recording a guitar track.


    The refining part of the profiling process shouldn't be affected by which guitar you choose; it should have no effect.


    I think the manual explains it very well, actually:


    Quote from Kemper Profiling Guide

    The refining process is actually independent of the type of your guitar. It is about adapting the distortion characteristics, as well as polishing the attack and dynamic response. The resulting Profile will act and respond accurately no matter what guitar or pickup you use.

    Quote from creative360

    Well, when I've owned a couple of ODS clones, the settings I used for the various guitars were very different. So my hope was that you would dial the amp itself in for each guitar and create separate profiles from scratch for each of three instruments. The 1980 Greco strat in my avatar is way darker than the Tele, for instance. The 335, another animal altogether. I'd rather the pure profile address that than having to make wide adjustments on the profile before I even get going. Yes, I hate sifting through a ton of profiles in a pack, but that said it only takes a few minutes and I could leave the ones not immediately being used in rig manager and just load the four or five that hit the mark for me and yes .. three or four fantastic snapshots is VERY worth it. Anyway, between those two Dumbles with the respective cabs if you get it right you'll be doing the Kemper community a huge service and also have a hit on your hands. Good luck!


    thanks, that makes sense. I agree I hate having a million profiles to wade through, but people like choice I suppose, but IMHO I'd find the sweet spot of the amps/speaker and mic it up the best way to get that sound captured and then profile. I'd not thought about the way of actually setting up with different guitars and then profiling but I think that makes perfect sense. I've been recording guitars for years but this is a whole different paradigm so it's taking some time to actually get the best profiles I can. I can certainly see why it would be very easy to get bad profiles of even a great amp/rig :D


    thanks for everyone's suggestions.


    I'll nail this :D


    TBC



    Marcus