Pure cab discussion

  • So far, I have left Pure Cabinet on in the output section, with its default of 3.0. To be honest, I haven't really experimented with it too much, and I was wondering what the rest of you all were using for this.

  • I did this too (and used 3 as well ;) ) until the good folks at Kemper gave us the ability to adjust Pure Cab per rig.


    Clean profiles sound better to me with no pure cab at all.


    Some crunch profiles sound better or worse with pure cab, so I adjust for each rig


    My PRS with heavy profiles works better with more pure cab while my Strat needs less.


    To my ears, Pure Cab makes the harmonics smoother in profiles. It tends to take a bit of the bite off the top too. This can be added back with EQ if desired though.

  • Several have corroborated that converted cabs don't have the same sound when converted to KPA format, Pure Cab or not.


    It was only until a short time ago that I realized the KPA comes with Pure Cab at 3.5 on global output settings. I disabled it and typically leave it off outside of a couple profiles. Pure Cab can mitigate some obvious noticeability of "Kemper mids" getting that "cocked wah"/tube screamer sound. You do lose the characteristics of the mic used in the exchange, and I'd say it starts to make most rigs sound the same-ish.


    I went back and forth debating whether to keep it on or not. In the end the subtleties of having it off give slightly more nuanced tonal variety than having it on. Ultimately that is a matter of preference. I was unsure whether to turn it off in a big part because I had gotten used to the rigs I liked with it on and was "scared" of changing that. But I got over it, and for the best.

  • I did this too (and used 3 as well ;) ) until the good folks at Kemper gave us the ability to adjust Pure Cab per rig.


    Clean profiles sound better to me with no pure cab at all.

    I understood from the Kemper tutorial video on Pure Cab that clean rigs are not affected by the process. Is this not true now it can be added per profile?

    Karl


    Kemper Rack OS 9.0.5 - Mac OS X 12.6.7

  • Indeed this issue deserves a lot more of "exchange of experiences"/knowledge sharing..


    I dont use pure cab so much during recordings anymore while it is imo great for certain profilers and some of their profiles.Indeed the "approach" of how you gonna mic the cab (during the profiling process)plays a huge/decisive role if you need afterwards pure cab and to what degree..no matter if clean/crunch or high gain.Live is a different issue imo.I like to use pure cab for many british style crunch profiles to get control of the artifacts in the higher freqs(sm57 close micing kind of things).Not a big fan of using pure cab with "open fender style" break up sounds..or vox/matchless style of medium gain profiles..but again..this is for live..


    Complex issue..


    I would like to hear more experiences from guys who use pure cab for their recordings.

  • I appreciate everyone's input, and agree that I'd like some more discussion. I'd be particularly interested in hearing from some of the main profilers I use, such as @lonestargtr, @deadpan, @Jimi71, @Cili, @Deadlightstudio, @Mattfig, @BigHairyProfiles, @timowens, and everyone I missed because my memory sucks.


    Do any of you guys have a particular pure cab settings in mind when you are creating your profiles, or is it more dependent upon the user's gear and ears?


    Thanks again, everyone.

  • Yo Patrick! Thanks for tagging me....I gotta be honest.....I don't know how to even use it nor what it's intended use is.....I just figured out how to setup my mics in the sweet spot after 1.5 years of trying....I'm not into tweaking at any level, I just want to capture the amp/cab and move on....The tweaks can be done by the end user....


    Cheers,
    Mattfig

  • As far as I can see the purpose of pure cab is to subtractively eliminate the microphone frequencies using an sm58 as the model to give you a sound through studio monitors that’s closer to the raw sound from the amp speaker.


    I’ve not personally encountered cocked wah tone with the Kemper, if it’s there in the profile it was there in the source in my experience thus far. But there is discussion about a fizziness elsewhere, I would imagine that pure cab would accentuate this as it raises the treble and bass, scooping out the minds a little in the inverse frequency response of an instrument mic.

  • I always assumed that Pure Cab was meant to tame studio profiles for live use. It seems that a profile that fits well into an album mix can often be a bit too bright and thin in a gigging situation where you are not double tracking.

    Karl


    Kemper Rack OS 9.0.5 - Mac OS X 12.6.7

  • The naked truth is that we dont have much information beyond "pure cab removes artifacts"-style of explanations.Till yet I did not had the time to figure out 100% how pure cab can help me ie recordings therefore my "request" for more knowledge sharing on this issue.At least there are some profiles which I like to use with pure cab for recordings.In a way @Mattfig above has explained.Instead of "tweaking"(EQs,compressors & OD/DIST-pedals) I like to use the kpa as a tool which instantly "delivers" snapshots of tube rigs for a "feel" I am searching for while my thinking is already on the arrangement on a song..no time for tweaking myself into oblivion,loosing the "essence" which is to "catch" this special idea and the flow of songwriting.I strongly believe that an "instantly" fitting (to your special needs at a given moment) profile delivers the best results and features like "definition" or "pure cab"(sometimes even "space") should be the first things to check out optimizing a nice profile instantly before tweaking to much EQs and fx..just like you would use an real rig,knowing the "basic character" of a tube amp,choosing quickly a cab which fits to this special character for a certain "idea" for a certain style of sound.


    I never tweaked any tube amp that much.I know how my tube amps sound no matter what I can do with the EQs which are on most tube amps just a "minor bonus".Switches like "mid boost" play a much bigger role for many (if not most) tube amps..The right cab,the right mic and the right micing always played a much bigger role for my needs.Pure cab is all about the above( as fas as I understood).

  • Hi Patrick!


    I personally do not use it. For me it adds a sense of sameness to many profiles and takes away the openness and precision. I do find it interesting for some styles but for metal to thrash to deathcore (what I usually play) I find it best off.

    I don´t like pure cabinet...i even don´t like it turned on and set to zero :D
    When it comes to highgain it muddys everything up imo.

    +1

  • I did a couple of videos demoing it:


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    Overall I kinda like it on some amps but not others. I can see it being more useful live than in the studio. I think it is VERY easy to overdo it and have it waaaaay too high. Even having it on 0 makes a large difference compared to having it disabled.


    According to the manual "The Pure Cabinet function aims to remove "mic sound" from the signal and smooths out the harsh frequencies which may be present in traditional miked cabinets." So for the purposes of recording and mixing, I think you will usually get better results with Pure Cab disabled and manually removing any harsh frequencies as per usual during mixing.

  • I found some sounds using it on 10 while running my powered toaster through a passive PA. I have thought about replacing my v30s with neodymium PA speakers. Without horns I'd tame the highs, the neos would be 3X louder and they would weigh less. I use to use pure cab a lot when I would put the character on 5. If I use it at all these days, it's on 0.3.

  • @Random3


    Yes.Obviously pc is much better suited for live,giving FRFR a more natural (ampintheroom)-feel but this is not what I meant.


    For me everything helps which gives me instant tools to "free a good profile" from "the dirt"..no matter if it is some fizz or artifacts or whatever.Ofcourse you can do a lot "with tweaking" specially while mixing but again..this is not what I meant.The better the basic sound is the less you have to tweak it afterwards,and on the other side it becomes much easier to make it sound "even better" while doing the rough mix..some features on the kpa can help a lot to give you a "natural tube rig" sound from the very beginning without to get instantly into a more complex "tweaking mode".first of all I like as much "good,natural" basic sounds as I can get,no matter if it is about drums,guitars or voacls..the "tweaking" comes much later and includes the "whole big picture" as you surely will agree with me.


    I guess most of us would not push the record button recording a great sounding marshall while they hear phase issues or fizz caused by wrong mic position etc..