Need help making tone/feel more believable w/ 4x12

  • I’ve come to realize the kemper is a recording tool, I think marketing it as a amp solution to be used with a traditional 4x12 cab is misleading unless the profiling is improved, for now kemper is hooked up to my DAW and 5150 goes to practice and shows

  • bump the amp volume in the amp stack,
    Bump the preset volume for the rig


    +1 Or so


    Don't use power amp boost, unless you really have to, which you don't, so don't use it ,unless you want to use it anyways. Probably shouldn't?


    You have greenbacks so I'd be careful but...
    Damn near max out that master volume for the monitor output.


    Studio eq post stack
    Find some low end to bump, 150-200
    Find some high end or dont , 5k-7k
    Figure out what mids you like or don't like and cut boost accordingly
    Sometimes 1400 sometimes 800 varies
    I almost always bump that 3k
    Low cut till wherever , 80?
    High cut till your fizzysizzlerasp doesn't icepick you anymore
    Mix 68-76%
    Ducking minus-.01-?
    Volume +1


    Do all your eq and tone editing shaping at a ridiculous heroic high volume.


    Monitor output eq for the room but also for your cab. I use v30s currently and I think I bump the presence and bass +.9 and cut the treble and mids around. 3or.6 sometimes I really bump the bass and sometimes I really cut the mids. For greenbacks that I used once or twice I just left it flat but no wasn't playing godly loud and without a band there is no context. Hope this helps


    Btw, +1 for frfr but then again I use both lol
    Use both and you'll see, especially if you can dial the cab in

  • I’ve come to realize the kemper is a recording tool, I think marketing it as a amp solution to be used with a traditional 4x12 cab is misleading unless the profiling is improved, for now kemper is hooked up to my DAW and 5150 goes to practice and shows

    In the case of kpa through guitar cabs I don't think the main issue in this case is profiling accuracy though. Kemper could improve what is left to some level of perfection and still solid state power amp would not deliver the same way as a tube section.

  • I’ve come to realize the kemper is a recording tool, I think marketing it as a amp solution to be used with a traditional 4x12 cab is misleading unless the profiling is improved, for now kemper is hooked up to my DAW and 5150 goes to practice and shows

    Totally disagree. I use my Kemper only live, never in the studio. I started with 4 x12 and moved to FRFR. The main reason being there was little point using a 4 x 12 anymore except for the look and I still occasionally use it.


    I didn't profile my own amps, I use already made profiles. However, the profiles I did make were pretty good replicas but I found better sounds elsewhere.


    I found:
    Guitar cabs colour the sound so much more than I originally thought, to the point that some of my sounds were poor through cheaper cabs - much more noticable than a regular valve amp
    Profiles that sound good through a 4 x12 can sound really bad because of the colouring

  • I use a carvin dcm300l class a/b poweramp I got no issues on matching any tube amp volume, the issue is the depth and low mids which I think gets left still when separating the cab. I profile my own amp and use commercial profiles and it’s still lack luster, is the kemper imitating the tone yes to a point but it’s not 100% capturing the magic that happens between the amp and the cab and there for is missing that piece. When I had my ax8 it was more believable in that context

  • FRFR is an expensive and unfulfilling rabbit hole if you like the amp in the room, power of pushing 4 12in speakers. A frfr will never ever replace that, I watched bands that were frfr with Yamaha dxr and clr wedges just sound thin live, when we pull up our 4x12 cabs and heads the crowd and everyone can feel and hear the difference, but I also play punk/hardcore so it has to have energy

  • Hi. Lately I've been trying to get a good live sound, as you describe it. Using different types off guitar cabs. Usually I find the sound to Sharp. My solution is to go to output/ montor eq. Turn down the two high freq values, quit a bit actualy. Hi volume makes big positive difference off course.

  • FRFR is an expensive and unfulfilling rabbit hole if you like the amp in the room, power of pushing 4 12in speakers. A frfr will never ever replace that, I watched bands that were frfr with Yamaha dxr and clr wedges just sound thin live, when we pull up our 4x12 cabs and heads the crowd and everyone can feel and hear the difference, but I also play punk/hardcore so it has to have energy

    Because I bought the Powerrack, FRFR was not expensive. It cost me £180 for a passive monitor ( which I tested against Yamaha DXR10 etc). It keeps up with Marshall 4 x12's at gigs and rehearsals.


    Having owned a number of high gain amps, mainly ENGL, I have never had so many compliments about my sound from listeners and guitarists with my Kemper.
    I agree if you just run backline 4 x12 there seems to be something missing, but direct FOH and just using a 4 x12 to monitor, I miss nothing.

  • I’m sure going FOH and just using something for personal monitor you do get good results, but play a show where only the vocal and kick drum is miced and you have to rely 100% on your own equipment I bet you’ll notice the loss

  • Yeah I think there is definitely some loss in air movement I won't disagree and I have sometimes suffered the "digital" loss where it doesn't cut through like a valve amp, although eqing improves this.


    BTW, even in small gigs I always mike my guitar because even with a cranked valve through a 4 x 12 you'll not project much past the first row.

  • and for the frfr route, a 1x12 100 watt tube combo may sound loud enough against a 4x12 tube stack but itll never have the depth or tone, its just physically not possible a 2x12 will hang with a 4x12 but still miss that low end, a 50 watt head is just as loud as a 100 watt head but the extra headroom of a 100 watt will sound bigger. Being loud isnt the same thing as I am talking about

  • the reason I could accomplish this with an ax8 is because I had the ability to set the virtual poweramp to react the way it should with my 4x12. I had no problem moving air and having depth, this is why I feel the kemper isnt fully adding the output is because even though it does capture the core tone it misses that lowend depth, the ax8 does to until you match the output section with the cabinet used and that using a solid state poweramp

  • you need cabs if you wanna move air, or a bose array lol. Seriously think about most decent size venues. So if you go frfr , go fricken huge. I'm talking at least 2x15 with horns (2x) why stop there? Add more if need be.


    "I want something that's easy to move around but I also want a big sound to fill the room and feel blow past my legs."


    Grab some dollies and a hand truck because no way are you gonna get on-stage volume to be big without lots of power and lots of speakers. YMMV, AFAIK, IMHO, FWIW, LOL

  • I am still having trouble getting a big bottom w/4x12 that’s TIGHT… Sure, I can get lots of bass, but it’s not at all tight like a tube amp...
    That huge - lower mid - tight Bogner tone, I cannot seem to achieve through 4×12 cabinets…
    Even when I use Guido’s merged Bogner profiles, That real amplifier tight roar is not there

  • I've never experienced the issues that the OP is experiencing. My Bogner profiles sound just like the amps, especially when using the same speaker(s).


    I don't play metal though and that usually seems to be where people think something is missing.

  • I read "chugging" and took that to mean metal. I never chug. ;)


    My best results have been running a Bogner Shiva profile into the Celestion V30 speakers in my 2x12 Shiva combo. Sounds just like the amp to me.