Is it just me but, what's the point of profiling acoustic 'amps' ? surely an acoustic guitar with a pickup/mic system needs as little processing as possible to get the best sound. You want a nice pre amp with tone controls and then probably a little compression and reverb.
An acoustic amp is basically a FRFR/monitor for when you're working without a good sound system or small gigs. Profiling that then sending it to a PA system is a strange way of going about things IMHO.
MC
Display MoreIs it just me but, what's the point of profiling acoustic 'amps' ? surely an acoustic guitar with a pickup/mic system needs as little processing as possible to get the best sound. You want a nice pre amp with tone controls and then probably a little compression and reverb.
An acoustic amp is basically a FRFR/monitor for when you're working without a good sound system or small gigs. Profiling that then sending it to a PA system is a strange way of going about things IMHO.
MC
There are processors out there for acoustic guitars that make the raw piezo signal sound much more like an acoustic guitar. These can be profiled.
I think, I am backed by strong statement by Christopher Kemper, just when KPA hit the markets in 2012.Okay
Okay. But I surely hope Christopher has changed his mind 5 years later now. 
Okay. But I surely hope Christopher has changed his mind 5 years later now.
Dual profiles would require a hardware upgrade-you can't do it with just a software update.
Now is a great time to buy digital gear. Remember back 25+ years ago when we bought a device and that was it? No updates or FREE upgrades. I wonder how companies like Kemper are cash flow positive with constant FREE updates and upgrades? Sure the Kemper is not cheap, but I only paid once. They even repaired it since it was under warranty with fast shipping.
There seems to be the notion of free updates / upgrades with digital guitar gear now. Don't get me wrong, I think that is great coming from the consumer level, but how is that for the business? Line 6 did OS upgrades but offered paid amp packs. Axe FX offers paid IR packs (I am not sure what else they offer, don't care really). How long will Kemper keep on updating? When is enough?
never enough, man. free updates is a way to capture new customers as well.
I hope for a preset management tool more than anything, a better fuzz would also be welcome
cheers
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I think the KPA is very close to the product that it aims to be. At launch it was not, but managed to sell and start becoming respected because of the core profiling feature. At the same time as it gained popularity much low-hanging fruit was picked:
This was low-hanging because the improvements were quite significant and important to becoming the product it should be. Now I think there is not so much left.
I think that better computer control (a good editor) would add value, but it's not as central for the KPA as it is for competing products like the Helix and AxeFx. The reason I say this is because the KPA seems designed towards a guitarist with the guitar in one hand and the other hand on the dedicated KPA knobs: it doesn't behave as a "menu system on a small screen" but more like a "digital amp front panel". This goes hand-in-hand with the fact that KPA's soundcreating methodology relies on physical presence in a rehearsal room/studio rather than excessive fine-tuning of parameters.
Try to imagine what an editor for the KPA should look like. A "menu system on a small screen" obviously benefits from a larger screen and a mouse: rather than clicking up-right-right-select-plus-plus to increase treble by two steps you now do it with a simple mouse gesture. And the "pages" on the small screen can intuitively correspond to tabs in the large screen interface. But for the KPA UI there is no obvious large-screen correspondence.
So not only is an editor less needed (because of less reliance on tweaking and the "digital amp front panel" UI) but would also likely correspond less intuitively to the hardware. I think these points demonstrate why Kemper have been correct in their past priorities of not focusing on an editor.
Off-handedly speculating about future strategy I could even imagine that rather than simply "making an editor", it could make more business sense to go "all in" on catering to the fans of "accessible UI". This would mean hardware with a bigger color screen and apps for smartphones, tablets and desktops (this could even enable lower-cost incarnations of the Kemper algorithms, such as in a plugin or small smartphone-controlled stompbox). This would be a step away from the Kemper tactic of focusing on raw functionality for musicians, but perhaps the KPA now has a high enough status and a big enough ecosystem of rigs that it could take a reasonable share of the more mainstream market. The less drastic strategy would be to keep focusing on being the first choice for tube amp users contemplating going digital.
Bear in mind that you can join the forum without owning a Kemper, it's just access to these subforums that requires registration of your Kemper. However yes I imagine the Kemper is profitable enough.
I'm fully for the Kemper evolving it's amp modeling and profiling, but some FX are inherent in that. You can't do a good Fender Twin without the appropriate reverb. And you can't do any distant mic'd amps without a complex sounding room verb.
I suggested doing multi-part profiling to allow morphing (the real deal between two different rigs a bit like a wavetable synth, not just parameter interpolation for MIDI) and tone parameter modeling years and years ago when I first got a Kemper (early adopter), so I'm all for the idea. But given that Kemper mentioned Reverbs in the context of stuff being worked on I think that's more likely to happen soon and that's what the thread is, not what you wish would happen, but what you suspect might happen.
IT can be done, this company in the link has been using some form of sampling/convolution to copy hardware EQ dynamically in software , basically profiling the EQ and even compressors and reverbs. They have the best sounding plugins because they profile the knobs.
FWIW, there is an old early-days interview with CK where states that profiling the tone stack and being able to substitute tone stacks across amp models was a next-step goal. I guess it was abandoned as a goal. While that may be cool my two observations are that (a) we already have the AxeFX and (b) the KPA profiles not just the amp but the whole audio ecosystem -- cable, effects, amp, speakers, mic(s), preamps, consoles... EVERYTHING. In that context, being able to isolate, replicate and manipulate one tiny component in the name of realism doesn't make much sense. The KPA is agnostic in what you feed it, and should remains the same in how you manipulate it, IMO.
Perhaps the pre/post setting for the EQ stack was a nod in that direction, but there are hundreds of tone stack implementations and attempting to replicate the complex tone stack interactions with the various pre-amp stages (e.g. like Mesa Boogies) or the power amp (e.g. like Marshall's) would needlessly complicate matters.
That said, if you could make a profile that captured multiple gain stages in order to replicate how the amp reacts to gain changes, I could see that being super useful. You could profile the best versions of the same amp at various (say 2-3) gain stages. For example, if you have an amp that sounds stellar clean with a ton of low end, but you need to roll off the low end at higher gain settings, you could roll those changes into the same profile.
I’ve only had the Kemper for five days now. I’ve spent about 8-10 hours a day with it so I think I’m over the initial learning curve, but obviously still have lots to learn. What I find interesting and sort of frustrating is that the main bread and butter sounds of a guitarist aren’t easy to get with the effects section. I’m really missing a preset system within the effects pages. I know I can save tweaked effects but that just adds them to the list of effects choices. There just seems to be an absence of organization and I’m spending a lot of time scrolling through things I don’t want instead of quickly seeing ten presets for tremolo that I do want.
Fender blackface trem, Fender brownface trem, Square wave Vox trem, Magnatone vib/trem, mono trem, panning trem, modern rhythmic trem, etc. Where are all these?
The Kemper models amps. Most amps have two effects, trem and reverb...some just have trem. I feel like I’m having to create all these basic types of traditional sounds and I’m not even seeing all the parameters available to accomplish it, but I have ducking available which I never need in tremolo. It’s like the architecture for presets for effect modules is missing, or I still haven’t found it yet!
I’m stoked about the Kemper and my fingers hurt from playing so much so that’s a very good thing!
I’m finding some great fuzz pedal profiles but I’m not sure how to use these. I wish I could store pedal profiles and use them the same as built in effects.
I’ve found some of the Fishman Aura profiles and those make a big difference on acoustic guitar pickups. I’m hoping the new acoustic updates include more of these for dobro and mandolin.
I’m hoping the Kemper morphs into a do everything box instead of being targeted to just guitar players. I’d love to be able to use Neve EQ profiles on microphones and use the knobs for adjustment. Maybe that’s a ways off into the future though.
I’ve only had the Kemper for five days now. I’ve spent about 8-10 hours a day with it so I think I’m over the initial learning curve, but obviously still have lots to learn. What I find interesting and sort of frustrating is that the main bread and butter sounds of a guitarist aren’t easy to get with the effects section. I’m really missing a preset system within the effects pages. I know I can save tweaked effects but that just adds them to the list of effects choices. There just seems to be an absence of organization and I’m spending a lot of time scrolling through things I don’t want instead of quickly seeing ten presets for tremolo that I do want.
You can delete effect presets . And, you can make an effect preset and Label it "A trem1, A Trem 2 etc. That way it's at the top of the list.
Also, I just found out that you can save the whole effects and stomps section as a preset so,
If you like say, a trem , delay, and verb setting you can save all 3 of those as 1. Same with stomps, If you like using multiple dist, a gate and a wah or octave, you can save the whole set of 4 on either side of the amp stack!
Next time you're playing, press and hold either the stomp or effects button under the 4 slots above till it flashes, then use the browse knob to pull up that preset menu! There's a few already stored in there. Hope I said this right and hope it helps!
Cheeeerrrs! 
Come on bro, that's an easy one.Tube amp companies don't update their amps and they still make money.
Everyday someone/many are buying a Kemper or tube amps.
Easy way to guesstimate the Kemper's sales is looking at the Members of this forum total, As of today there are about 38,500 registered members which makes the monthly sales at around over 535 units. which translates to roughly a million dollars a month in sales,
Kemper is very profitable and the more they update it the more they will sell, Sales number is the Key to everything, the world is a global village with too many potential customers.
Dean my background is in IT. My point was not the unit sales being profitable, it was about allocating money towards updates / upgrades. If you've never been involved with software development or any kind of software implementation. Its extremely expensive. Whatever you have in mind how much it costs, you're not even close.
Now is a great time to buy digital gear. Remember back 25+ years ago when we bought a device and that was it? No updates or FREE upgrades. I wonder how companies like Kemper are cash flow positive with constant FREE updates and upgrades? Sure the Kemper is not cheap, but I only paid once. They even repaired it since it was under warranty with fast shipping.
The free updates make new user want to buy one.
Also it makes a five years old (which R&D cost has been repaid, and whose cost to manufacture has decreased) more economically rewarding. Have you seen many electronic products whose price is INCREASING with the time passing ? It's what happens with the Kemper. Thanks to free updates.
Has Kemper confirm they will have exhibit for the NAMM 2018?
Booth 3720 apparently
https://floorplan.namm.org/WN1…s=F&exhList=min#floorplan
Also, I just found out that you can save the whole effects and stomps section as a preset so,
If you like say, a trem , delay, and verb setting you can save all 3 of those as 1. Same with stomps, If you like using multiple dist, a gate and a wah or octave, you can save the whole set of 4 on either side of the amp stack!
Next time you're playing, press and hold either the stomp or effects button under the 4 slots above till it flashes, then use the browse knob to pull up that preset menu! There's a few already stored in there. Hope I said this right and hope it helps!
Yes, dead right! Good call!
