Using main outputs for FOH

Quote from music

I miss the cables going out of the Kemper.
Important to see.

[Blocked Image: https://www.imgdumper.nl/uploads9/5a3bd891283a2/5a3bd891233e3-Kemper_back.jpg]

Well the author of the post said he is using two xlr cables and the channels of the mixing desk are panned hard left and hard right.
The pictures show something different!

Quote from music

Well the author of the post said he is using two xlr cables and the channels of the mixing desk are panned hard left and hard right.
The pictures show something different!

Also; haven't read every reply but not sure what power amp boost pic purpose is as that has nothing to do with the desired connection scenario.

Right, he showing us just using the right Main Out of the KPA into a mic slot on the ZED. I saw the QSC switched to Mic instead of Line. Should be pretty easy to narrow down. Output on KPA is at Master Stereo but only using one out on the back. The Desk and Monitor should run hotter with Line level going into them, shouldn't they? Still don't get the loss of volume should be way more than enough.

Quote from theplayer

Yes I know but you must believe me that also the left main out xlr output was connected. I just did this to hear differences between 2 outputs...! So I did this on the mixing desk too. But both inputs (panned l + r) were used before photo! No volume differences noticed

At a certain moment you try everything to solve the problem...! You're right. It doesn't help...!

Wow this is hard...I explained this above. The picture was taken just after I took a xlr out of the right output.
Since one wrote here to connect 2 xlr cables to the Kemper's main outputs instead of 2 jack cable, it's seems clear that they are to be connected to 2 xlr inputs on the mixing desk. And yes they are also for balanced mike inputs.

The reason that the QSC is set to Mic is that this option delivers significant more volume from the speaker! Both speakers are set this way.

I see all the comment but even with 1 output the output volume on 1 speaker stays low. No difference when they both are connected! And I followed the advice form someone here to NOT use LINE level but use XLR !
Its' confusing to read opposite actions.

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I know man, I feel for ya!. It sure does seem that the problem starts at the input to the desk and ends at the output to the desk as it worked straight KPA>QSC. There's lot's of studio guys here and that seems to be a nice mixer so we'll figure it out. Hang in there......

Quote from theplayer

The reason that the QSC is set to Mic is that this option delivers significant more volume from the speaker! Both speakers are set this way.

The Mic setting on our speakers would be what you'd use if plugging a microphone into the speaker. Your mixer and Kemper outputs would be line level (whether XLR balanced or 1/4" non-balanced). You need to get all of the volumes set in a matching way.

Maybe try to Kemper directly into the speakers with the speakers set to Line. Set the Master volume on the Kemper where you think it should be to get a decent volume. Then connect the mixer to the speakers still at Line. Connect the Kemper to the mixer with two XLR's to two channels. You would have already set the volume level on Kemper. Bring the gain up on the two channels until you see it slightly start to clip on the mixer channel. If the channel seems to clip even at lowest gain, then you need to lower the Kemper or use that -12db checkbox. If you end up raising the gain quite high then maybe you already have the Kemper too low.

Then set the mixer faders (channel and master) up where you think they should be. lf no good maybe the channels have a problem. Can you try a microphone on the same channels? Or maybe try the Kemper in other channels. You could also try using the Kemper 1/4 outs to the Line inputs on two channels just to see if you hear a difference.

Last thing - the speakers you describe are 8". Even though they say 1000w in this case that means 500w to the speaker and 500w to the horn. So don't think so much about the number. The maximum SPL is around 123db - not quiet, but it's not going to blow the room away with two 8's and you'd have to be pushing them pretty hard to get that 123db.

Hope this helps in some way.

What else is going through the PA? I agree that's not a lot of grunt if there are several other things being amplified.

I'd also set your mixer to line level and then adjust the Kemper volume up as far as possible without clipping.

Quote from Finally

I'd also set your mixer to line level and then adjust the Kemper volume up as far as possible without clipping.

I don't know a lot about mixers, but in the pictures I noticed that the XLR inputs are marked "Mic" and the jack inputs are marked "Line". Maybe line and mic level are tied to these inputs, with no way to switch between them but to change cables?

In that case, maybe you could try simply using jack cables instead of XLR to connect the Kemper's Main Outputs to the desk. That should make it expect line level, so it won't clip so quickly and you can increase the gain on the desk to get more volume.

Thanks @Robrecht, this is what I've mentioned in my post #15 too. One need to understand which signal is line and which is mic level. The Kemper is clearly line level as well as the mixing desk's output (set speakers to line, not to mic). As everybody can see on the pics the mixing desk's gain on the Kemper channel is set pretty low. Likely it must be set like this because the channel activates a mic preamp when seeing XLR (but: the lower the gain the lower the reachable volume). On the next pic one can see a jack cable in a line input with a much higher gain level (more reachable volume). Is this a Kemper channel too?

Before continuing here, maybe it makes sense that you first read all the fu... manuals to get more knowledge about the Kemper, what it is and what it does and how to use it?

Quote from theplayer

I switched from xlr to jack line in on the mixing desk. And now I used only one jack line out from the main outputs. As expected this prevents clipping but needs higher gain on the desk and higher fader volume with no extra for soloing. Maybe a guitar straight out from Kemper's main out to desk is not common or recommended by Kemper and is the use of a cab with mikes to desk needed?

It's common and very much recommended to do it like this, so the fact that you're not getting enough volume definitely means there's a problem somewhere. But we'll figure it out in the end.

In your photo I noticed that during your troubleshooting, the Kemper's Master Out volume ended up at -18.8, which was definitely good to prevent sudden loud tones while looking for a solution. But now that the mixing desk is treating the Kemper's signal as a line signal, you can (if you haven't already done this) carefully turn the Kemper's volume up again. You'll have much more headroom before it clips: hopefully that will give you the volume you need.

‘Maybe a guitar straight out from Kemper's main out to desk is not common or recommended by Kemper and is the use of a cab with mikes to desk needed?‘

This is exactly what the kemper is designed for. I really can’t understand how anyone can spend so much money on a device and understand so little. I’m sorry but this is frustrating from my perspective of someone who’s trying to help…

Good luck

Quote from theplayer

Thanks Zapman. Much appreciate! At this moment I can't keep up in volume with the rest of the band. I just follow rules:
1. instrument and master faders down
2. adjusting incoming Kemper xlr signals with gain knobs on mixing desk through pfl (pre fade listening) until level meters show a bit yellow
3. master faders for everyone to a certain level for FOH
3 adjusting my channel faders to desirable volume Can't get that with volume pedal on max (= use for solo but not even right for rhythm) Changing anything leaves me out of balance with the band

Well I must not of paid attention to #2 above which tells me that you have plenty of signal coming into the desk from the Kemper. I would now lean towards what the desk is putting out to your Main Out > QSC's. Not a mixing desk guru but it would appear that you are not sending enough of that signal to the main outs. Hopefully your not at full gain on your desk to get the KPA to show just into the yellow otherwise as @Robrecht said you can now turn up the volume on the KPA if your using Line level signals and not Mic. No offense but I would dig into the ZED's manual a little bit as that is where I think your whole problem lies.

I apologise but it’s not easy to help. I guess your comment about the kemper not being used commonly straight to desk was probably sarcastic in retrospect and I shouldn’t have risen to the bait.

All the best sorting it.

I'll just restate my opinion that unless your KPA has a fault the solution lies in understanding the mixer better.

When you switch to line level you should be able to turn the KPA up and send a hotter signal to the mixer.