Well...Finally got a Kemper after months of research..And...Not so good

    Quote from Tonester88

    3. I have played several different variations of digital gear so I am not all that unfamiliar with it. I played thru a Line 6 AX212 for 15 years. A buddy of mine still has one and we put my Kemper setup next to that amp and the Line 6 just sounds so much more natural and plays and feels like an actual amp whereas the Kemper feels nothing like a real amp.
    I am using high end guitars so all of my other equipment is not lackluster. I use Suhr guitars. I was testing the Kemper with a SSH+ and SSV hum hum setup.


    I run this same guitar thru Scuffham's S-Gear and the Steeler amp in that software (basically an old marshall model) and it sounds and feels so good. I can play on that software for hours it sounds and feels so real. Unfortuneately it is on my recording desktop and it is not a gigging amp.

    I think 3. is the most important. If you think the AX212 plays and feels like an actual amp, I think you are accustomed to the sound and feel of the AX212. This amp is about 20 years old, so is the hard- and software inside. It's a fact that modeling (or profiling) took some giant leaps, last two decades. And still will.
    I know some people that prefer a Roland GP16 over a KPA, "because it sounds so warm and dynamic". Believe me, the GP16 is far from warm and dynamic.


    Twenty years ago I had a Yamaha DG-1000, one of the first and best modeling preamps around, those days. I was very, very happy with it, sounded great. Over some years I sold it. But a weak ago I bought the DG-1000 again, for pure curiosity. Would it sound as great as it sounded then? Well, I can tell for sure, it doesn't. Compared it with the KPA, of course.


    In this case I think it's all about mindset.

    Do you spend a lot of time listening to miked amps? Have you spent some time in studios listening to them through monitors?


    Personally, I would never use my Kemper live. I much prefer a real amp, which can be miked in a second. For recording it’s amazing and that’s what I use it for.

    Edited once, last by PhilUK84 ().

    For me it was like any other piece of gear. Excited to by it, initially underwhelmed and after 6 months start to really get it working well.


    One golden rule with the Kemper is rubbish in and you'll get rubbish out. Get the profile right and it is a perfect solution for me.

    Karl


    Kemper Rack OS 9.0.5 - Mac OS X 12.6.7

    To the OP: If you haven't yet tried the KPA though a FRFR system, you really need to give that a go before you give up and return it. I've felt exactly as you do a number of times on my learning curve with the KPA, but right now I wouldn't trade it for any amp you could offer me. In a moment of doubt I quite recently bought a Friedman JJ-100 and matching cab (I'd been using a JJ profile for some time) as I was convinced a real amp would give me something I felt was missing. The upshot? I couldn't get on with it at all. Now it's sitting in my music room gathering dust.


    I will say this: I do not like using the KPA through a guitar cabinet, especially with overdriven tones. I have a nice Marshall hand wired 2x12 cab which I was using for a while and this was good for clean sounds, but it makes overdriven tones sound very flat and boxy, and EQing to try and correct this doesn't produce a satisfactory result, IMO.


    My setup is now KPA into a Friedman ASM-12 and for most stage and home use I couldn't be happier. The only thing I miss is the big, trouser flapping stage presence of multiple speakers.

    Quote from PhilUK84

    Do you spend a lot of time listening to miked amps? Have you spent some time in studios listening to them through monitors?

    This


    Many players still dont have a clue about these issues.Ofcourse they will never admit this.



    Quote

    I much prefer a real amp, which can be miked in a second.


    How do you know;


    I mean seriously my friend..how do you know;How often did you gig your tube rig while you have been able standing down in the middle of a crowded venue to listen to your FOH-sound during the gig;Sorry for this highly hypothetical question.With all due respect.


    It is the first time in more than 30 years and countless gigs that I can at least get some clue about "how do I sound FOH" with my rig.What I hear over my monitors will be at least "very similiar" of what the audience will get from me FOH.

    People that are used to their sound on-stage from a tube amp and cab often have problems with the KPA IME.


    I believe that the KPA can produce better live sound than any tube amp I have ever owned (and I have owned quite a few). Out front the sound is just incredible IMO.


    On stage, the monitoring rig you use is vital to what you hear. I haven't had any success using a guitar cab, but there are a few here that appear to get what they need out of one. I still think the FRFR route is best.


    It seems to me that micing a guitar cab driven by a KPA is counter to the entire concept of the product. YMMV.


    My setup time and carry weight has dropped so dramatically, I can never imagine lugging another 4x12 cab around again. For me, this was even more important than guitar tone. I just got better tone as a bonus ;)

    Profile the tube amp you own or even that Line 6 thing, see what happens. If it still doesn't work for you then I'd return it. BTW quality of profiles on rig exchange will vary from shit to excellent and I can guarantee that none of them were set up for your guitar and taste. Better to try Kemper factory profiles and numerous Kemper endorsed packs which have been released over the years.

    Edited 2 times, last by mdeeRocks ().

    Quote from Nikos

    How do you know;

    I know because I’ve heard a Kemper with FRFR behind me and I’ve heard it with my Deluxe Reverb/Bassman behind me and I prefer the amp. I don’t play venues where I need to be miked, but on the rare occasion I have been, it hasn’t been a difficult thing to do, and it hasn’t sounded bad so for me, using the Kemper all the time live would leave me wanting my amp.


    I play in a local covers band. If I was in a situation where I used inears and miked the amp a lot and stuff maybe it would change, but for my needs, it’s just not for me. I just much prefer using a real amp because it inspires me. Using the Kemper live feels like a solution rather than the ideal option, which is a cranked amp directed straight at the audience. This is impossible at times so other solutions are needed, miking is one, the Kemper is now another.

    Is this going to be another one of those threads where the OP says the Kemper sounds terrible but refuses to upload any video or sound samples? Quite possibly you have a hardware issue or maybe it had been previously returned and has been messed with. Restore to factory settings then upload a video. If there is an issue, I'm willing to bet the good people here will know exactly what's wrong within 10 seconds of hearing it.

    Hey Kemper Folks...


    Sorry for the delay in getting back int to the conversation. So some of the common replies for checking connections...


    -I am in the "red" speaker jack out and not the monitor out.
    -In the "Output" section I have the following settings:
    *Main Ouput - Master Stereo
    *Monitor Ouput - Master Mono
    *Monitor Cab Off checkbox ticked
    *Main Volume - -16.0db
    *Monitor Volume - -18.0db
    *Main Out Link - checkbox ticked
    *Monitor Out Link - checkbox ticked
    *Monitor Output EQ - All zero'd out
    *Output Addons - Pure Cabinet - checkbox UNticked
    *Power Amp Section - PWR AMP Boost 6.0db
    *Power Amp On - checkbox ticked


    The Input Section
    *Clean Sense - -1.7db
    *Distortion Sense - -1.0db (Turned this down due to the Suhr SSH+ pickup seeming to drive any overdriven type of profile too much


    Those are the main IN and OUT settings I am using to base my comments in the OP. The clean based profiles do not sound all that bad. Found a few Fender based cleans that are pretty decent. But once getting into any type of driven profiles that were pre-loaded or available from the Kemper site for free Rig Packs from various companies it just falls apart. Just does not sound or much more importantly feel anything like any amp I have played in the past. Not sure where the subtle latency is coming in. It may be just milliseconds, but I can definitely sense something is not locked right up with the sound when playing lead/solo lines.


    The last few tube amps that I have played on since letting my Line 6 AX212 go about 10 years ago:
    *Blackstar HT60 - Pretty good sounding amp for the money. Clean channel was fairly sterile and it was heavy as all hell.


    *Hughes and Kettner Grandmeister - Trying to get the tube amp and the idea of programability with effects and all similar to the way the Line 6 AX212 worked. Just did not quite have the overdriven character that I preferred.


    *Landry LS50 - Really nice clean channel and marshall style channel - Fairly heavy to lug around and needed a full pedal board full of pedals for reverbs, delays, overdrives etc. etc.


    *Redplate Magica - Really nice amp on both clean and dirty side. Probably the best tube amp that I have played thru for overall ground covered. Was a lighter head physically, but still had to have a full pedal board with a bunch of pedals for effects and it had a very fussy effects loop that had to have a buffer pedal to keep it from sucking tone etc.


    Now as much as it was a pain in the ass dealing with keeping up with tubes, biasing them, lugging them around as they are not the lightest things, having to have a full pedal board of effects to go along with them etc. etc. Once up on stage and all hooked up, the things had the most visceral, organic touchy feely quality to them and they would get such a sweet tone to them as you would get them up in volume a little bit. The louder the better for sure, but typical gigging volume would get the goods typcially for "that" whatever it is that happens with a good tube amp.


    Unfortunately, around the house I cannot get the volumes up too much on tube amps as I live in a neighborhood that just is not very "amp" friendly for getting a tube amp somewhat enough to get into some of the poweramp versus just the preamp stage of the amp.


    So...after looking into the Kemper since gosh...I am guessing around March of this year I thought this thing on paper seems to be the Holy Grail of solutions to all of these problems.


    So far in reality I am just not getting anywhere close to what I have experience on amp wise in my background of playing. And believe me I am in no way wanting to bask in the glory of having to go back to a tube amp and go out and have to get another sack full of effects pedals to put on a board to get setup again to gig that way.


    One thing that has been common in a lot of the threads I have read thru the year is how great the FOH is and it seems as though stage monitoring short of in ears (absolutely hate them and will never be able to deal with that approach) is always kind of the step child part of the equation. I do have a MBRITT Xitone cabinet coming my way to try that over the cabinet.


    I do live in the Nashville area so most of the time there is somebody pretty decent running sound. Usually don't have to worry about FOH all that much. For the most part show up with just about any type of amp and they will get things sitting right in the mix. Not a worry from the player standpoint on fretting over FOH. I concentrate on what is happening a few feet from me thru the cab. I want guitar/cabinet interaction when needed and want to hear a damn stellar tone and vibe going on right there on stage.


    Since I am in the Nashville area I do know of a guy that hangs around Michael Britt quite a bit and seems to know the Kemper pretty good since him and Mike spend quite a bit of time together with the Kemper doing the profiles. If anybody knows the Kemper it is anybody associated with Mr. Britt.


    Just for background reference of styles that I fall in here is a few snippets that I have recorded. I choose these as they were band audition clips and these were all recorded with a Blackstar HT Stage 60. Not the worst, but not the greatest tube amp out there. Point being that I can typically get things to sound pretty decent with just about whatever I am playing thru most of the time.
    The tone on the clips is pretty much what you would get on stage coming out of the cab.


    https://soundcloud.com/stringsnthings-1

    Tonester88, here's a video if you want to see Michael Britts live kemper setup when playing with Lonestar.


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    Quote from PhilUK84

    I know because I’ve heard a Kemper with FRFR behind me and I’ve heard it with my Deluxe Reverb/Bassman behind me and I prefer the amp. I don’t play venues where I need to be miked, but on the rare occasion I have been, it hasn’t been a difficult thing to do, and it hasn’t sounded bad so for me, using the Kemper all the time live would leave me wanting my amp.
    I play in a local covers band. If I was in a situation where I used inears and miked the amp a lot and stuff maybe it would change, but for my needs, it’s just not for me. I just much prefer using a real amp because it inspires me. Using the Kemper live feels like a solution rather than the ideal option, which is a cranked amp directed straight at the audience. This is impossible at times so other solutions are needed, miking is one, the Kemper is now another.

    Ok.I get you now and I agree.


    Indeed there is still a "special feeling" playing your beloved tube amp in a small,smokey and intim little gig.No mic.Just two amps (guitar/bass) the kit and the small foh for the singer..this is a very nice situation.Love that too..still the best thing..


    But as for micing all I wanted to say is that this issue(micing) is not "a second" at all.Not a bit.The problem has always been that we-as electric guitar players-had NEVER the chance to know how we sounded beyond the stage with the tube rig behind us.


    Let us be honest here.


    Most players on any kind of a bigger stage will return every few seconds to their rig to hear the cab and to get "their feel" they know from the rehearsal room.I saw(and still see) this a thousand times.Even professionals do this all the time.For a few moments they stay in front of their monitors but "meh..." so a few steps back to the cab behind them.Just close enough to be able to hear the drummer and his kick/snare..


    Actually we guitar players as "tribe" need the faith that what we hear from our cab is what the audience will get too.And we just dont care enough if this is true.Besides..we dont have anyone to ask anyway.After the show we will get down the stage asking first our friends (non musicians) and they will tell us how "great" we played.They will not even understand that you asked for the sound FOH and not for your playing.Then you maybe will ask some other musicians and will get typical "musicians answers" including that the most envy (because your band and you as guitar player just rocked the crowd which cheered you all the gig) will tell you that your sound was shit.Last try will be your girl friend but she was more busy to watch how many other women came to close to the stage where you stood.. :D;) No chance to learn about your FOH-sound.The Kemper does solve this for me to a big degree.


    Anyway..

    Appreciate it Squarehead. I am not throwing clips on here for any type of "look at me" angle. I think it tends to help others understand where is a poster coming from experience wise and what is it that the player is trying to achieve with a specific piece of gear.


    I have been playing for about 40 years and have been around the block gigging for a good 30 years of that. Back in the day there was nothing compared to today available to players. Back then you got your hands on what very few amps etc. that were available and it was up to you as a player to find a way to push the gear to sound good thru sheer playing ability. I think it actually is a lot to do with what skill and experience I have as a player today.


    Anyway I choose those clips purposely to reference an amp that was not a top of the heap amp. I have a pretty decent ear on messing with knobs and settings to finally get there to what tone and feel I am after. I am pretty picky though the way an amp feels and responds to what I put into it dynamics wise. I am a decent enough player to really push an amp and squeeze quite a bit out of them.


    Listen to all that are responding. I am not in here to troll on a Kemper at all. I love the size and concept of it and would love for it to work out. Like I said earlier in a post, I have no desire to go back and start hauling tube amps around with a big pedal board of effects. Or having to keep up on the maintenance of them. Believe me, I really would love for the Kemper to be a solution, but it has to get really really close for me to justify the cost input of the unit and for me to feel confident with it behind me on stage at gigs.

    Also to answer a few posts. I do not have any physical amps right now to profile for a comparison. I cleaned out most of my pedals and sold off my amps to help fund the Kemper purchase so I am down to whatever rigs are available to try.


    Right now I am pretty hesitant to go out and buy any profiles from the well known places that get listed on here regularly. I have tried the free 50 pack from Britt for instance and cannot imagine anything purchase wise would be that much different than getting a good taste of those samples. Before I go out buying any profiles I would like to get to the bottom of what can be done settings wise in the Kemper with the samples available on the Kemper site first.


    Thanks for all of the input and posts. Hopefully the settings that I listed above will lead to some thoughts from the more experienced users on the board here.

    Hey Tonester88,


    If you can find a way to actually hook up with Michael Britt, that would be amazing.


    Michael brings so much to the table as a current working live and recording musician, amp aficionado and tone Meister, not to mention Profiler Extraordinaire. 5 mins with him and his rig will tell you everything you need to know. Keep us posted if you do.


    Best of luck!