Well...Finally got a Kemper after months of research..And...Not so good

    Quote from HappyKemper

    No need to be passive aggressive and exaggerate again, using all us thousands of kemper/forum users as "them" when you refer to a small handful of users. Nothing constructive comes from doing that, it only brings polarizing negativity.
    There is a red thread in many of your posts about previous beefs with a few users or moderators doing their job to those who repeatedly have violated forum rules. Just let it go and don't keep bringing that to new threads.

    Please. There are 3 people on this very thread who made the very comments I outlined. Clearly you’re more concerned with my dismissive attitude towards their dismissiveness than you are with their own lack of constructive comments.

    Tube amps are better at being tube amps than digital replicas of those amps. Also, water is wet.


    My issue is the implication that anything that isn't a tube amp is a waste of time and that the KPA has somehow mislead people.


    Just buy one or don't. Maybe even have both like I do. Either way the negative cork sniffer stuff is tiresome.

    Perhaps someone is just confused at how they could be content with an old Line 6 product that everyone bags on to the point of cliche while being less impressed with the KPA. After all, people here talk about how superior the KPA is to other modelers as though there’s no comparison, which leads you to believe you’re missing something with Line 6 (when you may not be). I’m not being a cork sniffer or even trying to be negative but even I used to use my POD without issue for years but recording with the KPA has been very frustrating. I’ve had it for over a year now and still having to tweak and reamp old tracks that just don’t sit well. Certainly getting better than my previous attempts and I assume the OP is much the same but for me it’s taken a hell of a lot of time and work.


    I was more or less reassuring the OP that his problems aren’t unique and that I can offer some type of help with my own experiences, and to ignore the ad hominem rhetoric. I wasn’t initially going to participate in the thread until I saw a few passive side swiping comments.

    Lots of people say the POD 2.0 blows, yet I’ve received more compliments on my tone after tweaking it than anything else I’ve recorded with. Perhaps the OP is using it in a way that works for him. I just don’t think it’s fair to question his ears, especially when he echoes something stated before.

    I say Profile the line 6, I've profiled my hd500 and my helix with even better results than the original. Use it as a template that's what I think it's best for. Maybe switch the cabs around, add some gain or less and use a post stack eq. I don't know, play with it, see what happens.


    It draws an outline of a tone that's close enough or possibly indistinguishable, duh, that's why it's called a profiler LOL! Once you have your template, fill in the rest. Drives, eq, etc.


    As far as the powered toaster or rack through a real guitar cabinet goes, I'm not seeing what's up entirely but I kinda do sometimes. Overall I can drown out and cut through the mix like a pristine surgical tool over my other guitarists' marshall jcm tube amp all day. Even only running at 300watts@16ohms in a cab with v30s that's actually rated less than that.


    I'm starting to think that those who have a powered toaster or rack that dont get the results they're after aren't really pushing it because maybe they are scared to blow their speakers because the manual says output light shouldn't be red at all or hardly ever. I think that's not true for the most part. Also output eq to tailor the cab and room are very important. I'm not saying that it should be non stop as red as red can be (also not, not saying that either) but, a real cab is supposed to be pushed. That's part of the sound! Right?


    I strongly advocate giving everything little bumps along the way. Amp volume up, rig preset volume up, post stack eq plus 1 or more, master volume damn near maxed out and power amp boost last and sparingly.


    Everybody gets to say what they want to, it's a choice. Be helpful or be opinionated.
    We can try new things together or keep saying the same old things. Our choice to be offended to the reactions of each other are just that, and nothing more. I hope we choose to be happy and helpful in all ways, always.


    Cheers.

    Quote from Horspip

    No, I meant what is your output level?

    I told you a few pages ago that my volume was -19 DB… (95-100db across room from cab- pretty loud) Is this what I’m doing wrong? Not enough volume? You seem to insinuate that it was…Then you never followed up?
    Sorry, but I just want to make sure I have everything set up properly, (hoping that I don’t because then it will explain the issues…) ?(

    To clarify my point: of course a tube amp over a passive speaker sounds different than a model of a signal chain (mics etc. included) through headphones, FRFR, PA, whatsoever.


    But this is the whole point of it. It will never feel 100% in each and every situation. But what it does is enough for me at the moment even if I hear the difference.


    If you want the real deal buy the real deal with all its up- and downsides. Some compromises will have to be made either way, but for me, the pros win on gigging with the KPA. At home - sometimes KPA, sometimes real amp, as I please.

    First, just to get where I am coming from, I would say that I would mic the guitar and run the bass DI in a venue of any size. Having low stage volume and a good mix is critical in every venue to getting the band to sound its best.


    I have (of course) played with just amps on stage and nothing miced.... but honestly, it isn't pretty (to me). As a minimum, kick and toms need re-enforcement for a decent mix (unless playing blues). Using a minimal approach with some re-enforcement I have had some really good nights though. Most places I play sound much better with re-enforced sound all around.


    As for comparing the sound of a Line 6 to a Kemper ..... I must agree with those who are casting doubt on the people praising the Line 6 .... ewww.


    I have been up and down the streets of Nashville and seen the various setups there. Lately, I have seen a few Kempers too ;) There are more small, intimate setups for sure. Perhaps for these "stuffed in a corner" setups, an un-micked 1x12 tube amp would be the best solution. For any of the stages where a band was actually meant to play, a Kemper DI into the board with a FRFR monitor would seem an ideal setup (to me).


    As with all things.... everyone has different taste. It is just difficult for me to contemplate someone preferring the Line 6 over Kemper. It's kinda like preferring bologna to a fillet ;)

    To all....


    I would like to thank everybody for putting their thoughts in on my original post. I never like to see any thread go into posts that start getting at each other. And that is for sure not why I posted my original questions and thoughts. I am definitely going to keep working with the Kemper for a bit more as I still have a few weeks of a return window before giving up.


    With regards to the Line 6 comments as there seem to be many posts around that specifically with the AX212. That amp IMHO was quite ahead of its time. That kind of broke the scene for modeling and everything that has came after it. As far as recording thru an interface and FOH the Kemper from what I have heard in the clips is a much better sounding piece of gear. My point was more of an in the room set of thoughts. The Line 6 just feels more immediate under the fingers and seems more like an amp feel and playing wise.


    It also had a quality of just being any old amp in the room as far as the vibe of the amp. Just the approach of sounding like a typical raw amp sitting next to you. Tonally The AX212 was not as clear and defined as it had a bit of muddiness to the gain and clean channels were not nearly what the Kemper is capable of. The setting that I tweaked 20 some years ago was the Joe Satriani preset. I took that preset and messed with it and the guys that I knew that had or still have them still use that setting to this day for overdriven stuff.


    That is where I was coming from in terms of the AX212.


    Maybe these clips will help convey what I am expecting from the Kemper sample wise.


    The first clip is a Jeff Beck clip. This particular tune is one of the better examples "for me" of how a good amp can convey every little harmonic, ping of the strings and "sass" with a little digging in and very delicate dynamics. It puts out all those little things that the player is capable of putting into the amp. Especially when playing with fingers like Beck does which a good amp will give every tiny nuance with that sweet depth. Bring the volume knob up a bit and the amp just wants to take off from you right out from under your fingers unless you kind of control it if that makes any sense.


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    While not a studio level recording, this next clip of just guitar into amp in a live room setting with a player with exceptional touch, shows the kind of sweetness and dynamic range I am looking for in an amp. Goes thru cleaner styles up thru some nice tasty drive. To me at least it gets back to the idea of the Beck clip above. Whatever little subtle approach in playing up thru digging in the amp becomes part of the whole vibe there next to you. It is right there completely in sync with immediacy with every little thing you do as a player in reaction.


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    Perhaps that will give a better picture as to what I hear in my head and what I want to feel under my fingers and hear right next to me thru whatever speaker solution it takes.


    The Doug Rappoport clip is fairly similar to how I would have my general sound running. I always have a reverb running and delay is running just about 90 percent of the time. Sometimes as wet as the video and sometimes more pulled back but always on unless a song needs to be straight out.


    I am looking for a good productive thread here as I am hoping to see if the Kemper can get me where I am trying to go. Everybody is passionate about the gear that works for them and that is part of being a player. So I am not saying any gear is great or bad. I just need to figure out if the Kemper will do what I need it to do for my tastes and style of player.


    Thanks again for all suggestions posted so far!!

    Hey! :)


    i know your problem well. I recommend using ONLY direct profiles of amps if you go into a cab.
    The kemper guesses a lot when it comes to seperating the cab out of a studio profile.
    So yeah.
    I got a big collection of free DI profiles check them out ...


    It takes some time to know the kemper well but i recommend not giving up ^^
    i have the kemper pretty much from the start and the tweaking skills still get better :)


    i also love to use the kemper as a pedal platform ...
    i made profiles of the poweramp only that are ultra clean and are great for preamp pedals oder normal pedals ...


    for the sound you described, try ma vox, fender blues dlx or even the victory kraken profiles with less gain... or the zt lunchbox profiles (these work great with strats and teles ...



    BTW
    what guitar do you use? then i could help you with finding something you might like

    Ahhh. After hearing the clips, I think I see part of the disparity anyway.


    In both clips, the tone of the guitar was drowned by the tone of the efx (to my ears). Certainly the verb on the first clip is something I believe that is currently beyond the Kemper. At least in my many tweaking, I have not been able to get such a nice transparent verb from the Kemper (although I have found that the current verb engine is more than adequate for my needs since I use very little efx in general .... more of a spice vs a sauce approach).


    You may be more at home with a AxeIIFx which sports an efx engine that is considered industry leading (not to say that the KPA has "bad" efx, it just doesn't have the complexity and depth of the AxeIIFx IMO).


    I will say that as far as the dynamics and amp tone I heard in the clips you posted, I have no problem at all getting that from my rig .... and actually I feel I have a few tones that are superior to both clips ... but my taste leans to a much dryer guitar sound so take it with a grain of salt.


    I know you are going to try another cab for use with your KPA, but I would still strongly suggest you try a FRFR powered speaker. Surely you can bum one from a friend. Nashville is awash with them ;)


    Good luck to you and I hope you find your tone in the KPA. If not, then I hope you find it in another solution.

    I actually have a powered MBritt Xitone on the way so I will be able to try it with an FRFR powered solution next week.


    Thanks Bommel I will def. check out some of your DI profiles. Like I said I want to give it a few weeks and keep giving any suggestions a shot.


    Thanks!

    I tweaked a orange profile and with my ibanez rg2550 i sounded pretty close ...
    sure with a few minutes more of tweaking i could get close but i tried to do not too much
    because i don't know how you guitar sounds ... but maybe this is a starting point ...


    the dynamics are always the hardest thing ... with less dynamics the pickups wouldn't sound as different
    but the playing would sound also different you can try a compressor or better a multiabnd one in front of the kemper,
    i recommend a tc body rez ... it gets rid of all harshness the pickups sound more similar and you don't use so many dynamics ...


    and both samples are fulls of delay and reverb so yeah ... that has also a big role in that sounds


    yeah ... let me know what you think :)

    Tonester88, click the link in my signature to hundreds of bands and producers using the kemper live and on records.
    Plenty of info with links to gear setups and music videos.


    Here are some videos with Doug Rappoport using the Kemper profiler live playing with Edgar Winter Band.
    Playing the kemper through a Marshall cab.


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    oh maaaaan i totally forgot that on the axe fx II is also a model of the dirty shirley amp ...
    and since i profiled all amps i have it in my collection ... check it out ... i think you can't get much closer

    Brommel Thanks a ton!! I am traveling today and tomorrow, but I cannot wait to try out the profiles that you sent. That is what has been frustrating for me initially with the KPA because I know I have seen videos of Doug using it and these guys have them sounding good. The only thing is that I am always hearing the FOH mix or videos that have them into a recording interface. It would be nice to hear what Doug hears standing next to his cab and the settings he is using that is for sure.


    There is another guy that gets fantastic tone from it out in Florida..


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    He has several clips using the Kemper since he picked it up recently. I have talked with him before buying the KPA. Of course again these videos capture the FOH tone and he uses in ears for his monitoring rather than a cab.

    I have recently bought a non powered toaster and a remote in hopes of being able to do electric and acoustic out of one rig. My live rig is currently 2 Princeton Reverbs with gold alnico 10's and pedal boards for the electrics and acoustics. I aim the amps at my head and let foh take care of things out front, works perfectly. BUT it's a slightly complex setup pedal-wise and I need a separate pedal board and monitoring for the acoustics. Anyway, the sound of a tube amp and speaker is what I grew up on and it's what I love.


    One experiment I have tried is to have a power amp input installed on one of the Princetons. It's actually a clone made by Roy Blankenship - he changed the ext speaker out to a line in. It works wonderfully, fed by the monitor out set to cab off, but the variety of sounds the Kemper offers is reduced significantly through this rig. The main outs still have the Kemper cabs, so the variety will be there at foh. On the upside, it completely fulfills my desire for a tube amp and speaker cab.


    Ultimately I will move to the Kemper only rig, but for the moment I gig with the pedals and amps setup, still working on the Kemper. I also detest in-ears, so I will likely get a full range cab or two. The beauty of that setup is I will also be able to monitor acoustics through it.


    BTW, in running acoustic electrics through the Kemper I learned to select "constant latency" to maintain phase. I do wish the Kemper had a way to adjust phase as it's a critical factor for acoustic electrics.


    Best...H