Well...Finally got a Kemper after months of research..And...Not so good

    Yes, I agree Steve is a great guy...
    Reinhold Bogner, Dave Friedman, Steve Fryette, Bruce Egnater, John Suhr... sincere, humble human beings who would do just about anything for their customers, wonderful group of guys!
    :thumbup:

    Quote from OneEng1

    Steve Fryette is a fantastic guy. I used to own a VHT UL and had a blow out on a Friday night with a big Saturday gig coming up.
    Steve mailed me the schematics (I am an electrical engineer), and helped me get my amp back up and re-biased once the repairs were made. He even offered to call to walk me through it if I needed.


    I have nothing but good things to say about him and his products.

    Hi guys,


    It's very interesting for me to see all the coments about powerstations and real cabs here.
    I completly disagree with all the things which are written about using a power amp and a real cab. Why?


    I have heard some powered kpa with a real and no, yes no one, sounded good to me.
    I own an unpowered untit and last year I also played a Mesa Boogie 2x12 celestion V30 (not a bad cab) with an absoluite linear power amp. The sound was not bad, but it was not what I expected from the kpa. That was really clear, because over this cab nearly every profiled amp sound the same. It sounds like this only one cab sounds. And it sounds like the typical 12" speaker. So with this combination I can't use a speaker simulation.


    For me, the speaker simulation is one of the biggest things when using the profiles. They sound so cool when using them, but not with a real cab.


    I've done the invest and made the paradigmshift to a very good frfr (and I don't mean a one for 300 to 500 buck's). I went to a hifi feel. That is what I want to hear when I play the kpa. High end sound with the right cab sim. I can tell you, this makes the diffrence. A real cab gives you only one soundfeel. This sound mustend be bad, I also tried coll DI profiles and got a lot of power f.e. with a diezel DI profile , power amp and real cab, but when I loaded a rectyfier with nearly the same gainstage like the diezel, it sounds nearly identical with the one real cab.


    I sold this stuff and I play frfr. It took a little time to be familar with it, but today I am totally happy with this monitor sound and foh gets the real sound with the cab sim. This makes the kpa so versatile. Ok, you can let cab sim on to foh and off to the real cab, but this is not what I want. I would like to hear the same cool sound on my monitor which goes out to foh.
    It took some time for me to get this, but in the end I am happy as a puppy with the sound I have today.


    Don't want to offend all those player who play a real cab. This is only my experience and my 2 cent's. I can highly recomment to change to one or better two (for the great stereo fx) frfr. Every player who have done this and player f.e. U2 stuff or other tricky stereostuff on stage can underwrite this I think.


    I post a little tune here again, believe me, this is exact the sound that comes out of my frfr when playing live and loud. That is the funfactor for me. First you hear the pure power of an diezel vh4 profile and than in mixcontext. This sound break your bones when playing live and loud.


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    @ all real cab players: Please forgive me.............

    My two cents... using a guitar cab is robbing you of a lot of the profile. Years ago I contacted mike soldano to get a recommendation of a better tube to put in my SLO - it came with sovteks. Mike said the guitar cab has a lot to do with your tone and he suggested trying different cabs and leaving the tubes alone.


    When you turn cab emulation off, you’re also losing how it was miked along with the sound of their profiled cabinet. It homogenizes your tones.


    One of my bands I use a guitar cab live behind me for a little extra volume onstage and a monitor in front. Eventually I’m going to make a guitar cab for my kemper that has frfr speakers in it.

    Quote from okstrat

    My two cents... using a guitar cab is robbing you of a lot of the profile. Years ago I contacted mike soldano to get a recommendation of a better tube to put in my SLO - it came with sovteks. Mike said the guitar cab has a lot to do with your tone and he suggested trying different cabs and leaving the tubes alone.


    When you turn cab emulation off, you’re also losing how it was miked along with the sound of their profiled cabinet. It homogenizes your tones.


    One of my bands I use a guitar cab live behind me for a little extra volume onstage and a monitor in front. Eventually I’m going to make a guitar cab for my kemper that has frfr speakers in it.

    Have a look 1:18


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    Very intresting I think

    Quote from okstrat

    My two cents... using a guitar cab is robbing you of a lot of the profile. Years ago I contacted mike soldano to get a recommendation of a better tube to put in my SLO - it came with sovteks. Mike said the guitar cab has a lot to do with your tone and he suggested trying different cabs and leaving the tubes alone.


    When you turn cab emulation off, you’re also losing how it was miked along with the sound of their profiled cabinet. It homogenizes your tones.


    One of my bands I use a guitar cab live behind me for a little extra volume onstage and a monitor in front. Eventually I’m going to make a guitar cab for my kemper that has frfr speakers in it.

    thanks bro, but i use of direct profiles through my real cabinets…

    Quote from Eltzejupp

    Have a look 1:18

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    Very intresting I think

    That looks very interesting indeed...


    Si

    I totally agree to your recommendation using a FRFR-Cab also for live-use. That's also my live-setup. Still better is a FRFR-Stereo-Set for a great stage feeling as you describe.


    I cannot follow your argumentation concerning the usage of a guitar-cab. Here's the reason why:
    Last year I was lucky to welcome HellG (a member of the Kemper-Team) in our rehearsal-room in Recklinghausen (btw. for the second time). We made some profiles of my TwoRock Custom Signature Reverb Amp played through a 2x12"-Mojo-Box equipped with Celestion G12H Heritages.
    The reason for this was my thread that I couldn't achieve a proper profile of this amp (it has a huge bottom-midrange-resonance).
    After a few hours of profiling, talking, joking (and beerdrinking) we made several most accurate profiles with a simple SM57 microphone. The reason why I had not achieved good profile-results before was - as I now learned - that you have to compare the profile at exactly the same loudness as the amp drives the cab. This is most important and due to the Fletcher-Munson-Effect.
    At the end of our profiling-session I wasn't able to distinguish between both sounds. It really was not possible - even the haptic-feel - was the same.


    Due to this really really authentic reproduction of the Amp-in-the-room-sound, you may dislike the result, but indeed it cannot be worse than the original because they sound the same !

    Yes, I understand that point. What I meant is, when you use one real cab f.e. with greenbacks and you load one Marshally rig it dounds great. Load a rectyfier rig and hear what comes out of your „ one“ cab. Not the sound that i expect from a recty. Load the recty with the right cab sim and a lay it thru frfr, the sun comes up. This is my only point to play no onger with one real cab. It‘s too limited when using the kempet with so many cool different amps.

    Quote from Eltzejupp

    Yes, I understand that point. What I meant is, when you use one real cab f.e. with greenbacks and you load one Marshally rig it dounds great. Load a rectyfier rig and hear what comes out of your „ one“ cab. Not the sound that i expect from a recty. Load the recty with the right cab sim and a lay it thru frfr, the sun comes up. This is my only point to play no onger with one real cab. It‘s too limited when using the kempet with so many cool different amps.

    The cabs are what make the tone. Many amplifiers sound very similar through the same cabinet. They all use pretty much the same valve setup and I recall changing my JSX EL34s and 6L6 tubes without hearing a whole lot of difference.

    Karl


    Kemper Rack OS 9.0.5 - Mac OS X 12.6.7

    Quote from Eltzejupp

    Yes, I understand that point. What I meant is, when you use one real cab f.e. with greenbacks and you load one Marshally rig it dounds great. Load a rectyfier rig and hear what comes out of your „ one“ cab. Not the sound that i expect from a recty. Load the recty with the right cab sim and a lay it thru frfr, the sun comes up. This is my only point to play no onger with one real cab. It‘s too limited when using the kempet with so many cool different amps.

    Ah, I see, that's right !
    So a good recommendation for all guitar-cab-users then is, to choose a cabinet which fits best to the prospected Amp-profiles they want to use.


    To get the most out of the profiler's capabilities - also for live use - is a good FRFR-Cab.

    Quote from Hurricane

    Ah, I see, that's right !So a good recommendation for all guitar-cab-users then is, to choose a cabinet which fits best to the prospected Amp-profiles they want to use.


    To get the most out of the profiler's capabilities - also for live use - is a good FRFR-Cab.

    Yes, you got it :thumbup: That's what I mean

    Just to be clear....


    I also believe that using a FRFR speaker is the best way to get the most from your KPA.


    As for getting the "amp in the room" sound, there are very few speakers out there that I have heard that are capable of reaching the volume levels of a 4x12 cab. It is my opinion that those people who "feel" the difference between a real "amp in the room" and KPA through a FRFR speaker is due to the volume difference.


    Since I am not a proponent of loud stage volume anyway, the KPA is a perfect tool for what I do.


    When playing my KPA through an amplifier and my VHT cab, I agree with others that have stated that many profiles sound very similar. The cab colors the sound enough that you lose much of the original character of the rig that was profiled.


    YMMV.

    Hey OneEng1... I completely 100% agree that the Kemper was really made to use all the beautiful cab Sims and the whole package, through a PA system or through FRFR monitors. This is where it excels! There is no real amplifier, cabinet and microphone that I would choose instead of using it live.
    I also agree totally, (even when using direct profiles), they tend to sound very similar when plugging straight into a 4×12 cabinet…
    However, I disagree with your point regarding the ‘amp in the room’ feel... It’s not about volume, I have used a DB metre in the room and matched volume exactly, it’s about feel… I am getting much closer with my direct profiles, But seriously, it doesn’t really matter, I’m the ‘old timer-fossil’ that plays through 4x12 cabinets at home, I probably represent less than 1% on this forum,


    Live, I use the KPA to its full potential, or as you guys would say, ‘properly’ ... no cabinets, in ear monitors.
    This is one heck of an amazing machine and gigging has become an incredibly enjoyable experience because I don’t have 300 pounds of gear to set up, teardown, FX units to hook up, microphones to set up ‘exactly’ to achieve the tone, which always changed every night anyways… LOL ... my tone is terrific and consistent every night, much, much better than using expensive tube amplifiers for the past 25 years.
    Overall, I am extremely pleased :thumbup:

    Quote from SQUAREHEAD

    I also agree totally, (even when using direct profiles), they tend to sound very similar when plugging straight into a 4×12 cabinet…

    Yes, because the speaker has a huge impact on the sound of the amp. In a lot situation it makes more sense to change the cab/speaker than the amp.
    Just check out this video for example. It might be an ear opener (13 speakers vs one amp):


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQdvSYUzruc

    Quote from stfuzz

    Yes, because the speaker has a huge impact on the sound of the amp. In a lot situation it makes more sense to change the cab/speaker than the amp.Just check out this video for example. It might be an ear opener (13 speakers vs one amp):


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQdvSYUzruc

    I totally agree. That's why I'm actually more and more looking for commercial IR-files than for more profiles (though I've got a pretty large bunch of them). :thumbup:

    Quote from Hurricane

    I totally agree. That's why I'm actually more and more looking for commercial IR-files than for more profiles (though I've got a pretty large bunch of them). :thumbup:

    Search for rigs from deadlight and store seperately the cabs from Lars ( Lars Kemper rigpack too because Lars and Frank are deadlight studios). His 1960 AV cab is awesome. I owned one original celestion greenback IR pack and it sounds like crap. You can save your money using deadlight and also guidorist cabs.

    Quote from Eltzejupp

    Search for rigs from deadlight and store seperately the cabs from Lars ( Lars Kemper rigpack too because Lars and Frank are deadlight studios). His 1960 AV cab is awesome. I owned one original celestion greenback IR pack and it sounds like crap. You can save your money using deadlight and also guidorist cabs.


    :thumbup:
    I have done this for the last couple of Years, and Lars and Guidos cabs are great!
    But when You refer to the Celestion IRs as crap, do You mean the official ones that Celestion released last year?
    Because I have the 4x12 Greenbacks and 4x12 V30 packs from them and I think they are wonderful!
    Actually the it's first IRs that sounded as good as the BEST cabs from Lars, Guido and SinMix. Other IRs I've tried have sounded weird and def not up to the standard of a great KPA cab.

    Quote from Janne

    :thumbup:
    I have done this for the last couple of Years, and Lars and Guidos cabs are great!
    But when You refer to the Celestion IRs as crap, do You mean the official ones that Celestion released last year?
    Because I have the 4x12 Greenbacks and 4x12 V30 packs from them and I think they are wonderful!
    Actually the it's first IRs that sounded as good as the BEST cabs from Lars, Guido and SinMix. Other IRs I've tried have sounded weird and def not up to the standard of a great KPA cab.

    I mean the commercial greenback pack from celestion. But these are only my 2 cents. I am not a fan of greenbacks in general. I tested this pack 30 minutes and than i deleted all.

    Quote from Eltzejupp

    I mean the commercial greenback pack from celestion. But these are only my 2 cents. I am not a fan of greenbacks in general. I tested this pack 30 minutes and than i deleted all.

    Ok, I tend to gravitate towards the V30s for high-gain but I've started to use the Greenbacks from Celestion and Guido on medium-gain Marshall/Friedman sounds to get the 'brown' character...
    I find that in almost 99% of all profiles, commercial or free, changing the cab to one of the Celestions, Franks, Guido or Sinmix always makes it better...

    Quote from Janne

    Ok, I tend to gravitate towards the V30s for high-gain but I've started to use the Greenbacks from Celestion and Guido on medium-gain Marshall/Friedman sounds to get the 'brown' character...I find that in almost 99% of all profiles, commercial or free, changing the cab to one of the Celestions, Franks, Guido or Sinmix always makes it better...

    This. I have forgotten the sinmix cabs. Also cool ones, especially the 2x12 boogie from him