Help... I'm losing faith!

    So I've been using my Kemper as a live rig for a couple of years now, I have a powered toaster which I run to a Mesa 2x12 cab. I have to say that I love how the Kemper has changed my gigging experience, it has lifted my band (rock covers) to a new level with the ability to create sounds and effects for songs that most cover bands would just gloss over. Having the ability to create separate performances for any songs that require something special is awesome. I've tied quite a few profiles in the time I've had the kemper, my favourites have been from Top Jimi and I tend to use a combination of Mesa and Marshall Direct profiles.


    So over the last few months I've started hearing that little voice that I'm sure most guitarists hear from time to time telling me to try experimenting with some different gear so for our last rehearsal I decided to take my Mesa Roadster along instead of the Kemper just to reassure myself that the Kemper is still comparing well. I kind of wish I hadn't now because the whole experience with the Mesa was so much better. I wish I could put my finger on what the difference is, there's just something in the way the power and volume is delivered with the valve amp that I didn't realise I was missing. It's almost like the valve amp was louder but without feeling like it needed to be turned down.


    I know that doesn't make much sense but with the Kemper if I turn it up to a point where it sits well in the mix it just feels like it's turned up too loud, almost making ot feel as though even touching the strings between songs can sound obnoxious. Maybe this is what people refer to as more Hi-Fi sounding. Others in the band commented on how the whole band sounded more musical and they were right. I could hear everything I was doing a lot easier too, I felt I had the ability to add to the overall tone of the band without feeling like I was overbearing.


    Anyway, I just wanted to share this as I do love using the Kemper and I'd love to figure out a way to make it feel more like the experience of using the valve amp, any tips appreciated as I can feel myself being tempted to reinvest in pedals!

    Edited 2 times, last by pauljoy ().

    Try making a direct profile of your Roadster, set the way you like it. You can use the Slave Out on the Mesa for your return into the KPA if you don't have a DI box, just make sure the cab is plugged into the head when making your profiles. I've made direct profiles of my Mark V and Stiletto Deuce ii with very good results when running my power rack into my mesa cabs.

    I can follow a few items of your posting and I also use my tube-amps from time to time in rehearsals or even (but seldom) for gigs on a large stage, just to verify, if I'm still convinced of my KPA (and I still am) and of course to have some fun with the Amp - in - the - room - sound.
    Though I also notice even a pretty significant kinda "haptic" difference in tone and feeling during my playing through my Tube Amps, I always come down when it comes to evaluating tones in band-context.


    We have a Zoom H2 - digital recorder in our rehearsal room and when I compare these recordings (same song same sounds, performed with KPA and Tube Amp),the KPA-sounds are much more convincing to me !!!
    I cannot imagine how this can be, because playing both amps alone, I always would prefer the tube amp.
    Maybe it's a matter of my hearing or concentration while playing, maybe it's the result of 4 years of (and still ongoing) tweaking sounds, but for me up to now is a true confirmation to stay with the KPA.


    I can recommend to make a recording and evaluate the results and then go with your personal conviction !! (for me it's the KPA)

    Interesting, it's the opposite for me. With the Kemper I hear myself so much better than when I was using my Marshall head, I can keep the volume lower and even if I'm close the speaker I can hear myself, where as with the Marshall I had to move 3-4 meters away. And I get plenty of punch and air moving through my cab, with the FOH being happy since they get a direct signal.


    You could opt to use your Mesa as poweramp, or use 4 cable method and use it an an external amp into the KPA via the loop.

    It's hard to tell, lots of "I am hearing myself better" is done by EQ. Maybe you picked a bad profile (for your mix) and the other poster was lucky since it was better than before. Profile your amp at the convenient setting at desired volumes. Then reevaluate.

    One thing I've noticed is the KPA is great for FOH with a mixed sound due to its incredible ease of use. When powered through a traditional cab, it gets slaughtered by a tube head pretty much every time. The solid state power amp doesn't give you that same relationship of a traditional head into a cab.


    No entire fault of the Kemper's, but nearly all digital devices suffer from... well... being digital. There's a full bodied frequency spectrum you get when recording or performing with a tube head and cab that gets sliced in the digital realm. After all, it's just 1's and 0's and lacks the complexity of analog circuits working in relation to one another. The question is whether that sacrifice is worth it in terms of ease. Some days I feel it is, other days I don't. I'm currently asking myself if I should just sell the KPA and go to tubes where I know I'll find satisfaction vs continuing to audition tons of profiles and finding ways to circumvent all the things that don't work for me with the KPA. Still, hard to beat the KPA for how easy it is to transport and play at low volumes. Here's where I struggle.


    I agree that you should make a direct profile of your Mesa at the setting you like and compare it through your cab and decide whether the differences are important to you or not. Currently I'm looking to do much the same to resolve my own predicament.

    I think it could be just switching between them. I was getting scary close good sounds from my helix and I kept having to check to see that my kemper did in fact play, feel, and sound better. Even worse was when I played the helix through a 4x12 cab , it actually sounded pretty damn close to awesome. To be far, I've also had a mesa 3xrec and an egnater vengeance and a fender super sonic 60. They all sound really good when you've been playing one for a while then switch to a different one and then spending time to redial it in. Fresh ears syndrome? Idk i had a similar problem between the powered kemper and effects return of a tube amp.

    Quote from Dean_R

    The only way to find out is profiling your own amp, if you get a tube amp and profile it at the setting you like and realize how close it is to the sound that nearly everyone hears when they go to a concert or play a CD or vinyl record, you can find a sound that you can fall in love with that's not coming from tubes, No?
    After all we all fell in love with guitar as we heard on records, sure it sounded great if you had front row tickets and heard the actual amps or played the actual amp in the room, but generally sound coming from PAs (not tube involved) can also sound fantastic and just as good with performance being the most crucial element and not the tube amps, (Santana played a Solid State Amp in Woodstock)

    At this point I’ve experienced enough of the “blind test” marketing the KPA is founded on. Close? In most cases. Different? Absolutely. Profiling my own amps won’t suddenly change what is present in every other case. All it will do is get closer to a sound that I crafted myself as opposed to another person setting up and profiling. Definitely increases your odds of being satisfied, though also highlights the sacrifices one makes for convenience with the KPA.


    In my time on the forum I’ve seen many people praise tones that I personally find terrible. I’ve also seen footage and heard recordings with real amps and the KPA that people feel gel perfectly, though I’m not fond of the end result. All things are a matter of taste, but it’s lead me to distrust the satisfaction and experience of others in lieu of my own. In my case when I just play the KPA by myself it can be really fun. When I use it at rehearsal or in recordings with my other guitarist using an Orange head & 4x12, it just doesn’t fit as well. I’ve tried thousands of profiles and cabs and tweaked but just hasn’t done “it” thus far, and he uses a head and cab that I don’t even otherwise care for. So I’m going to try my hand at profiling and see if that changes anything, though I’ve grown increasingly skeptical.

    Quote from MichaelRiesenbeck

    if I'm close the speaker I can hear myself, where as with the Marshall I had to move 3-4 meters away

    My experience is also that a very close monitor gives a clearer hearing result than a cab a few meters away (apart from the acoustic latency due to the distance)


    However, we prefer a rather quiet stage setup and direct the main sound pressure via FOH to the audience.

    Did you buy the Kemper after the Mesa? Why? If the Mesa is better, how did the Kemper ever take precedence?


    I see a number of Kemper owners acting as if they want their Kemper to break the GAS cycle but it's not going to happen. I used to have a wonderful amp that had exactly the tone I was after and I still miss it. If it was so good, why don't I still have it?


    Many amp companies have an amp that 'does every tone imaginable' and yet still people still sell them on. It's what we do. I love my Kemper but I'm not fooling myself into thinking that it sounds better than everything else I've had.


    In my current band, the second guitarist had a Marshall DSL and it took me ages to find tones that worked well with it, very mid heavy tones that I'd not normally pick but it never sounded 100% (although he never made it sound nice due to his effects IMO). Since he left and we went to a three piece, I can pick from a much broader selection without any issue. I guess that having one amp with 'amp in the room' tone and the other going through a FRFR is problematic.

    If what you are after is an amp in the room feel, then there's nothing like the real thing, though the Kemper may get very close when used as a direct preamp and with the right power amp and cab. But when used that way you will lose the varied cab sounds the Kemper provides, which you may still send to the PA mix, but which you won't hear well unless you choose the inears path and then waste the amp in the room feel. A real catch 22 here. I agree with Dean about our dream guitar sound being largely derived from recordings and concerts we have listened to. But it is also true that when you get used to tube amps the gadgets in the digital realm can be found wanting, the Kemper included. But those devices have made home recording easier, good tone at bedroom levels possible, headphones possible, aching backs grateful, rooms less crowded, angry wives less angry at our wasting all that money, you name it. And these devices have bridged the gap with the real thing, so their disadvantages seem smaller when we bear in mind the benefits. It is eventually a matter of taste and personal choice. I agree with MementoMori that some rigs and also some real amp sounds suck, but other ears may love them. Just like our own playing! This debate is a never ending story. So choose your path and be happy. Nobody has to convince you of anything. :)

    Never too old for rock'n'roll

    Like 3
    Quote from Dean_R

    Good luck and I hope it works for you. I personally am try to implement professional skepticism in most aspects of life in order to confirm or deny something. I bought the Kemper with extreme skepticism planning to return it if I couldn't do the profiling of my tube amps and other gadgets. Once I profiled my own amp and got so close, I was convinced that everything I watched was legitimate and noting anyone else said mattered including endorser of any gear., I did it and confirmed it myself that Kemper claims were accurate.

    Same here. I wasn't initially impressed with the KPA, none of the profiles I had tried to that point got me excited. Once I profiled my own amps, though, I quickly realized that the Kemper WAS what it claimed to be, and my only problem was that I hadn't found the right profiles for my own taste up to that point.


    But I'll tell you what-finding "that' profile is better than sex. :thumbup:

    The weapon imho is the definition Parameter in the Amp Section
    when I have an excellent Profile, I first go to definition and try several settings
    and with this I get a excellent Profilers more than excellent
    for my special taste
    dont turn your bass or Treble Knobs, first try definition
    And always check if the Noise gate is engaged, the gate sometimes has settings which alter the Sound to bad
    I always turn it off, an Guitar Sound can have some noise imho
    makes it more natural :D

    Thanks everybody for some really good feedback. I will try my hand at the profiling at rehearsal this week and see how that goes. To answer some of the questions raised...


    The reason I decided to gig the KPA over the Rectifier was mainly down to convenience, I was using a Midi controlled pedalboard along with a Midi switcher on the amp and everything was just getting way too complicated. As said by somebody else, it was also a huge relief on my back as that rig is heavy!


    I think the comment about haptic feedback is interesting. There does seem to be a big difference in feel although there's definitely something in the sound delivery at volume too. I don't think it's all an EQ thing, thats easy to change on the fly and I've tried that a lot. I find I like to use the definition parameter fairly high, I also prefer the 'diode' mode over using the valve rectifiers on the Mesa, these two seem to have a very similar effect on the overall results.


    I don't use noise-gate any more, I removed that a while back after reading about it here.


    I'll let you know how profiling the Mesa goes, I didn't realise you could use the slave out to do this or I would have tried earlier.


    Many thanks.