Celestion F12-X200 (Full Range, Live Response Driver) Released

  • The suggestion by PaulTS on phase reversal looks to be well worth checking into. Users often comment that speakers with a compression driver tweeter sound better at a decent distance - ie not at home but on stage or in a large rehearsal space.

  • something must be wrong

    i have a 1x12" cab with the Celestion F12

    and its glorious sounding with any Kind of Profile

    there must be a problem with your build

    maybe this it's the key ? i mean, it sound better in 1x12 version? it's just a hypothesis...

  • The suggestion by PaulTS on phase reversal looks to be well worth checking into. Users often comment that speakers with a compression driver tweeter sound better at a decent distance - ie not at home but on stage or in a large rehearsal space.

    i will check the phase asap


    EDIT: i confirm that they are electrically correctly in phase

    Edited 2 times, last by Jeeega ().

  • something must be wrong

    i have a 1x12" cab with the Celestion F12

    and its glorious sounding with any Kind of Profile

    there must be a problem with your build

    I'd love to know more about your 1x12 cab setup. I have two of these speakers on order and was planning to do two 1x12's hooked up to my matrix gt1000fx.

  • there's not much to say its the F12 in an Half open cab which is approximately the same sizes Celestion suggest for this speaker

    it sounds great and even better , imho, than the mission i/o i own too

  • it being understood that the loudspeakers are electrically in phase, the following tests will be disconnected one (short-circuiting it so that it does not behave as a passive radiator) and repeating the tests on the rigs, finally it occurred to me to change the type of connection (series -parallel) to hear if there may be sonic differences.

  • As far as jeega's report on strange sense of the location of the sound, I was thinking about the effect on imaging of two tweeters ~14" apart. Not exactly a point source. The twin driver cab might be better in stereo than in mono.

  • I'm super curious! Are these done with or without the cab sim button on, monitor cab off? Any tests with the aboved mention while using Pure cab? Thanks!

    hi, with cab sim and testing different settings about pure cab



    They might be electrically in phase, but they might not be phase aligned.

    :-/

    As far as jeega's report on strange sense of the location of the sound, I was thinking about the effect on imaging of two tweeters ~14" apart. Not exactly a point source. The twin driver cab might be better in stereo than in mono.

    for this reason I am curious to try also the operation of a single cone :)

  • I've never built a cab, but I've been in electroacoustic since a while.

    You can't expect to just mount a speaker in a box and get a great sound: box' metric volume and proportions, resonance modes, front diffractions, distance between the loudspeaker and the ground/base... are all aspects that receive a lot of attention at design stage, and can't be left to chance.

    Things get much more complex when you place two loudspeakers in a box: even when they are phase-coherent, the distance between them will unavoidably create a phase filtering which will be (also) function of the listening point.


    Things are much easier with a mid-woofer such as those used for guitar cabinets, because there are much less frequencies involved and a linear response is not required. But you can't just place two linear cones in a box and hope they will sound good (if they do, it will just chance).


    In this specific case, if the cab seems to produce an out-of-phase sound, it might be worth putting them out of phase: chances are it will sound better (but, again, not the way it was supposed to).


    Basically, I believe we can't judge the way these cones sound by a random installation.

    Still chasing a worthy one :/

  • so what do you suggest to do, not in theory but in practice

  • so what do you suggest to do, not in theory but in practice


    Not sure I can give you the answer you'd expect. It would be like asking so what do you suggest to do in order to become a great guitar player, not in theory but in practice.

    How to build a F1 car? Not in theory, but in practice? It requires skills, competence, experience, and a lot of work. You can't just take any frame, install the most powerful engine you can find, design a body you like, and hope that it won't crash at the first turn (provided it actually runs, or even starts, and doesn't gets on fire).


    It's the same for a linear cab: a cab able to work in a linear way (that is, with a more or less faithful way to the input) is the result of the optimisation of an intricate set of parameters, many of which conflicting with each other; it's designed and built through computer-aided parameters simulation, going through a number of compromises among physical quantities, and through long listening sessions in order to fine tune the involved parameters and the sound.
    Even varying the size of the front panel, other things being equal, changes the sound because border diffractions change.

    Basically, the short answer would be "you have to know what you are doing, be equipped with the needed tools, and have a great ear".

    IIRC you read Italian. There are several apps meant to guide to the correct dimensioning of parameters for an acoustic cabinet, this one being one of them.


    HTH

    Still chasing a worthy one :/

  • A very long post. Audio for Windows, thank you, I didn't know him (sarcastic).

  • Maybe go with Thiele dimensions for a cab? Assuming you want FRFR reproduction, this is the reference I would use for dimensions if I didn't have the luxury of building multiple boxes for experimentation.

    sure today I will experiment with the 1x12 version and if I have the desired results I will move in this direction. Bad that I go I will have a spare cone or I'll sell it :)

  • A little update: I tried several rigs in 1x12 " configuration and I'm totally disappointed with the sound. I just wrote to Celestion describing the situation and asking for an opinion and measures for a cab. I am seriously considering returning the speakers to Thomann under the 30-day guarantee.

  • I have hunted back through the thread a couple of pages but didn't spot what you are using for amplification, Jeega. If it is alredy there somewhere would you mind posting again what is driving these?


    Regards,

    Antipodes