Fractal Axe Fx 3

    Yeah, that was an epic fail. They should publish the sound engineers name so no one ever hires him/her again.
    I know for a fact the FXII doesn't sound like ass, so that was giving all modelers a bad name.


    If anyone wants de facto proof that FXII isn't there yet then read the UPDATES to firmware.
    Kemper is not upgrading it's profiling or algorithms for amp modeling.
    But the AXE is. Continually.


    Quantum update:
    9.01 Improved Speaker Compression algorithm so that the change in the speaker impedance is accounted for.
    9.03 Improved power amp modeling.


    IF the FXII had arrived at amp realism, it would not need continual "improvements" to it's basic amp modeling.


    If some here don't hear the different, great! Hearing loss, fanboyism, or just preference wins the day. Sleep well.
    But Chris hears it and continually improves his product. I hear it and keep the KPA for it's amps.
    They are minor. But the plain fact is: The FXII hasn't arrived at true amp realism yet.
    Nor will it through the FXII. It's probably not powerful enough for it's approach to modeling. Hence... The much more powerful FXIII.


    Kemper rested his case years ago when he said Improvements to profiling and amp modeling are DONE. Onto the other things.


    So people can stop pretending there is total parity. There isn't.
    The KPA beats the FXII in amp realism on many amps, if only even if by a hair. It's hard to hear when you use effects is why ppl are fooled.
    And the FX has some better effects than the KPA. This leads some to prefer the FXII. Others own both and mix/match. They make a good pair.

    Actually, there are a number of users who feel the KPA's profiling process needs to be updated and improved. There have been lengthy discussions in threads spanning nearly 100 pages with sound clips and comparisons detailing discrepancies that many KPA enthusiasts can hear. I was one of the posters who felt many of the differences were fairly small, but of those who claimed to hear a difference(including myself), the results of blind tests proved they weren't just making stuff up or that it was the result of confirmation bias. That said, I demonstrated that I was able to correct a lot of the discrepancies with EQ matching, but there were examples of top end raspiness and artifacts that appeared to be defects in the amp portion of the profiles. I've come to the conclusion that the amp section is the culprit because when you use the cab section in conjunction with any of the Axe FX's amps, the discrepancies disappear. When you use the KPA's amp section with third party IR's or the Axe FX's Cabs, the discrepancies persist.


    As far as the Axe FX's modeling is concerned, much like the KPA, the modeling is accurate enough that I doubt most people could correctly identify the reference amp from the model in a blind test. I base that on the video where Larry Mitchell A/B'd the Axe FX II amp models against the actual amps at FAS's studio. Any remaining differences are a game of millimeters, in my opinion, and it seems apparent that Cliff has no intention of stopping until every last discrepancy has been stamped out.

    Uh, that would be a heck to the No.


    Btw, that part about fixing the Kemper with tone matching?
    Well THERE you DID succeed... at effectively replacing an antihistimine and nasal steroid so for that I thank you!


    (these newbies are so cute, you just wanna wrap them up in a blanket and squish them)

    Quote from HappyKemper

    I enjoy some of the Cooper Carter fractal axe fx videos, but it was sad to see him, as a very prominent fractal employe, getting caught cheating red handed in a user poll on thegearpage last year. Fractal wasn't doing good in the poll, and he (representing a company) asked for help elsewhere and suddenly fractal did better in the modeler poll. They even posted print screen images of it on tgp as evidence before he deleted his help question. AFAIK he didn't get any reprimand from tgp staff. It's sad to see companies cheating and manipulating gear forums.

    I know exactly what you mean. I used to read the gear page a while back but stopped along time ago when I found out the then owner of the digital modeling gear forum Scott P a die hard AXE FX platfrom user, actually worked with Fractal and I watched him delete posts and remove many users contents that was honest negative experience with AXE FX one and two.


    What you wrote doesn't surprise me one bit and putting tone and even accuracy aside, when a name brand is established by unfair advantage by lying and cheating, it's hard to bond with that. specially when the head of the company is in the business of making malicious fabricated statements about his competition.


    The fortunate thing is that even with the new upcoming AXE FX III, going with the Kemper is still less money and much more accurate amp models with endless variety.


    There has to be a clear line drawn between marketing and deception and even on that level alone, you can vote with your money, but fortunately you would be striking two birds with one stone when you buy Kemper instead of Fractal,


    1-you would be "not a supporter of those who openly lie and cheat"
    2-Much more advanced realistic amp simulation that sit in mix live and in the studio much better (search you tube for Metallica AXE FX fails)
    3-The feel of the playing something not much talked about that can't be heard in sound clips can be appreciated when playing the Kemper. All other modelers including the AXE FX make you play differently in regards to finger response than you would when playing on a tube amp, Playing too long with this inferior modeling of the feel will be evident if you switch to tube amps and realize that what you did with your fingers using the inferior feel modeling doesn't give the same results on tube amps, so you would have to readjust your playing. Not with Kemper, it nails the feel way better than any other modeler.


    So are there any advancements in the feel department in the upcoming AXE FX III?

    Edited 2 times, last by Dean_R ().

    Quote from Dean_R

    Here's one of many Epic fails of the AXE FX II , A pod would have sounded better, no kidding. The guitars were indiscernible and they were using AXE FX II, even my wife who's a Metallica fan. as we we watched, she asked "what the hell is wrong with these guitar sounds." I smiled as I didn't think she would pickup on the horrible guitar tones, and answered, "they used the wrong digital modeler this is a terrible day for digital modeling". :D


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    Come on, you cannot base your judgement of the Axe-FX on a single bad TV performance, while you completely ignore great sounding clips (several posted in this thread). It not like you cannot find clips of bad sounding tube amps, or even Kempers on YT...


    Why won't you take ColdFrixion's blind tests?

    Quote from fredrikn

    Come on, you cannot base your judgement of the Axe-FX on a single bad TV performance, while you completely ignore great sounding clips (several posted in this thread). It not like you cannot find clips of bad sounding tube amps, or even Kempers on YT...

    Because there are more than one Epic fail with Metallica alone using the AXE FX II and this is just one of them and please don't ask me to link to them all, you can search on youtube .





    Quote from fredrikn

    Why won't you take ColdFrixion's blind tests?

    I put him on ignore and don't wish to debate him. I have a line of what's acceptable ethical behavior that doesn't allow me to deal with liars and those who support them when faced with indisputable evidence. To me those who support liars are actually worse.


    I'll tell you exactly what I told collectiveamneisa regarding ColdFrixion's and please don't mind my copy and paste as I'll try not to post the same thing again and again:


    Regarding Coldfrixons, there's nothing to debate, he insisted that Fractal never told their customers that tone match is the same as Profiling and challenged me to produce one post to that effect. I showed him a post of Cliff Chase stating "profiling" is 99% EQ matching " or Tone matching. He still insisted that customers don't understand that statement as the rest of the world would and I should provide him with Fractal customers posts with that understanding.


    In my book, ColdFrixion is worse than Cliff and Scott P and the rest of the Fractal cronies. I'lll call it like it is so, I used the less used but extremely useful ignore button, Life is too short to wrestle with liars and cheaters and their cheerleaders who know first hand. I'm sure many have no idea and don't know this stuff exist, so they're excused becasue at least they don't defend it. It's not defensible in my book.

    Edited once, last by Dean_R ().

    Uhm i don't know, you shouldn't judge the axe fx based on people that can't tweak sounds ...


    the axe fx approach is ery different to the kemper approach
    and while i prefer the kemper after i was with fractal for years
    the axe fx has also features that are simply better then on the kemper


    for me this whole thread is a fanboy war with post purchase rationalisation ...


    ther is no perfect product on the market, every product has flaws and unique selling points

    Quote from Dean_R

    Because there are more than one Epic fail with Metallica alone using the AXE FX II and this is just one of them and please don't ask me to link to them all, you can search on youtube .

    So what, there are plenty of great sounding clips. You just choose to ignore them.

    there are plenty of great sounding clips from so much gear including helix but that says nothing about how accurate is the playing feel and responsiveness.


    Kemper nailed that and i was fortunate to try axe ii and Kemper at a friend's and in the feel department that can't be heard in clips, Kemper simply does it much better , Much more inspirational to play.


    Again I don't see future axe fx 3 addressing improvements to the natural feel of tube amps based on what I read in this thread. Did I miss that part?

    Quote from Dean_R

    I put him on ignore and don't wish to debate him. I have a line of what's acceptable ethical behavior that doesn't allow me to deal with liars and those who support them when faced with indisputable evidence. To me those who support liars are actually worse.
    I'll tell you exactly what I told collectiveamneisa regarding ColdFrixion's and please don't mind my copy and paste as I'll try not to post the same thing again and again:


    Regarding Coldfrixons, there's nothing to debate, he insisted that Fractal never told their customers that tone match is the same as Profiling and challenged me to produce one post to that effect. I showed him a post of Cliff Chase stating "profiling" is 99% EQ matching " or Tone matching. He still insisted that customers don't understand that statement as the rest of the world would and I should provide him with Fractal customers posts with that understanding.


    In my book, ColdFrixion is worse than Cliff and Scott P and the rest of the Fractal cronies. I'lll call it like it is so, I used the less used but extremely useful ignore button, Life is too short to wrestle with liars and cheaters and their cheerleaders who know first hand. I'm sure many have no idea and don't know this stuff exist, so they're excused becasue at least they don't defend it. It's not defensible in my book.


    You typed three paragraphs and didn't answer the basic question, "Why won't you take ColdFrixion's blind tests?"


    You've made numerous critical statements regarding the Axe FX's modeling, yet you won't take a simple challenge and put your money where your mouth is. In fact, no one in who's been overtly critical of the Axe FX's modeling seems willing to.

    Quote from db9091

    Uh, that would be a heck to the No.


    Btw, that part about fixing the Kemper with tone matching?
    Well THERE you DID succeed... at effectively replacing an antihistimine and nasal steroid so for that I thank you!


    (these newbies are so cute, you just wanna wrap them up in a blanket and squish them)

    If you actually heard samples, you'd reconsider that opinion. And for the record, I'm no newbie.

    Quote from ColdFrixion

    You typed three paragraphs and didn't answer the basic question, "Why won't you take ColdFrixion's blind tests?"


    You've made numerous critical statements regarding the Axe FX's modeling, yet you won't take a simple challenge and put your money where your mouth is. In fact, no one in who's been overtly critical of the Axe FX's modeling seems willing to.

    Why would they? All it would do is challenge their misconceptions. It's easier to ignore them and continue postulating the same hyperbole over and over again. It's easier to write you off because of a petty argument of semantics "99% vs 100%" because it's an excuse to disregard the actual substance, which is inconvenient for them. You asked for any shred of proof from the Axe forum or TGP that consumers unwittingly conflate profiling with tone match, and you predictably got nothing because you're arguing solipsism, not rationality. It's about the world in their heads, not the one that exists. Same reason he's willing to immediately accept the story that Cooper Carter tried to load a poll without seeing a modicum of evidence.


    That's why you can send him an endless barrage of Metallica videos with great tone using the Axe but he will always reference the 1 or handful of videos with poor tone or tell you to look up other bad Axe videos, as if bad Kemper videos don't also exist. He's simply not interested in hearing what the Axe can do, if he were there would be a world of easy examples. He's interested in protecting his preconceptions and self-worth based on a piece of gear he bought. He'll just ignore any reasonable thing you put in front of him and continue peddling the same talking points because they are subjective and arbitrary, like criticizing the "feel". Nevermind he couldn't properly pick from your examples without a stroke of luck, it's all about the mythical "feel" that "nothing outside the Kemper" has. It's the same position he always recedes into when someone who knows what they're talking about participates in a thread.


    You'd think if the tonal differences and "feel" are as severe as he makes out that he'd be delighted to guess at your examples just to show you how easy it is. Clearly that's not the case, so it's exclusively a matter of misplaced pride.

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    Quote from NorthShaun

    Can the admins close this thread please! No longer on topic IMO!


    You mean that of the literally hundreds of threads and topics on this forum, this particular one you can’t seem to simply move past and choose another because of its existence?


    Just don’t look and select another... problem solved...


    Ok, back to whatever the hell is going on...

    Quote from ColdFrixion


    If

    I'm sorry you think there is a difference. I'd say try and track down, either in gear, learning curve, or ears where the problem is.
    But if you're convinced (and you sound convinced) and Tone Matching bridges the gap for you and that's where you want to stay at,
    then enjoy your gear.


    But it's a bit of hubris to tell the Kemper forum that they, profileing producers, engineers, artists, & other users that they are all wrong and you are right.


    I think you're on the wrong forum if you want to be a shill.

    Quote from fredrikn

    Because you simply cannot tell the difference between the clips.

    I already explained. Let me again explain the obvious,


    He has no credibility in my eyes and I can't trust his signal chain and whether he used a similar approach as Cooper Carter who manipulated pole results on TGP in favor of AXE FX II. Maybe he should post a video and make clear what he did for the sake of others, but I, personally, simply don't and won't think he's credible at the least and that's why I put him on his ignore,


    If someone interprets Fractal telling its customers "profiling" is 99% EQ matching " or Tone matching" to mean anything other than that Fractal is falsely telling its customer profiling is same as tone matching, he or she would have no credibility and not to be trusted period. Is that really that hard to understand?


    You all seem to have a cavalier attitude towards lying and falsely and intentionally manipulating facts without realizing how offensive it is to decent people. It's not a game or funny in any way.

    I'd be happy to own both if the Axe FX price wasn't quite so extreme over here in Europe. I have friends that get a good tone from Axe II, but Metallica is not a very good example of its capability. I saw Meshuggah using them live last week and it sounded a lot better.


    I reckon Kemper edges it for basic amp tone in what I want to hear and along with the price, that was an easy decision for me.

    Karl


    Kemper Rack OS 9.0.5 - Mac OS X 12.6.7

    Quote from collectiveamnesia

    Why would they? All it would do is challenge their misconceptions. It's easier to ignore them and continue postulating the same hyperbole over and over again. It's easier to write you off because of a petty argument of semantics "99% vs 100%" because it's an excuse to disregard the actual substance, which is inconvenient for them. You asked for any shred of proof from the Axe forum or TGP that consumers unwittingly conflate profiling with tone match, and you predictably got nothing because you're arguing solipsism, not rationality. It's about the world in their heads, not the one that exists. Same reason he's willing to immediately accept the story that Cooper Carter tried to load a poll without seeing a modicum of evidence.
    That's why you can send him an endless barrage of Metallica videos with great tone using the Axe but he will always reference the 1 or handful of videos with poor tone or tell you to look up other bad Axe videos, as if bad Kemper videos don't also exist. He's simply not interested in hearing what the Axe can do, if he were there would be a world of easy examples. He's interested in protecting his preconceptions and self-worth based on a piece of gear he bought. He'll just ignore any reasonable thing you put in front of him and continue peddling the same talking points because they are subjective and arbitrary, like criticizing the "feel". Nevermind he couldn't properly pick from your examples without a stroke of luck, it's all about the mythical "feel" that "nothing outside the Kemper" has. It's the same position he always recedes into when someone who knows what they're talking about participates in a thread.


    You'd think if the tonal differences and "feel" are as severe as he makes out that he'd be delighted to guess at your examples just to show you how easy it is. Clearly that's not the case, so it's exclusively a matter of misplaced pride.

    I thought you said you were done here and two days were more than enough because you said all that has to be said of your perceived bullying ! SO I take it you're back now ?( to bring more drama and attention Welcome back Mr. D., ooh wait you're name is collective amnesia now.


    Your collective amnesia clearly didn't rid you of your pretentious attention seeking look at me at any cost or else I'll cry earlier personality. It's so sad :( Get some help buddy :) really.


    To stay on topic, does the AXE FX III offer any improvement in the feel department? Anyone in the know care to chime in because I still haven't seen any compelling reason to why anyone should upgrade from 2 to 3. Anyone?