Fractal Axe Fx 3

  • gimmicks of Fractal but figured, hey you never know. It could be because so

    Thank you so much for posting this, I haven't been keeping up with the stuff since many years ago around 2012 when I discovered beyond a doubt how corrupt and unethical Fractal and friends were. That was all i needed to know back then to become certain that they're past rehabilitation and stopped reading.
    I know some don't want to read or hear about this stuff, but knowledge is power. If I didn't read and educate myself on digital modeling, I would have believed Fractal when they lied and said that EQ Matching is the same as profiling. Damn they're on a much worse than a real crooked used car salesman.

    Interestingly, the guy who says knowledge is power refuses to have a conversation with the most knowledgeable person on this thread because he doesn't reaffirm his biases. As usual, the gap between what Dean says and how Dean behaves is ever widened.


  • Actually none of that is the case, though you could stand to read the thread he linked to and several others. Users in other areas have also posted wav forms to point to differences which includes "spikes" (rasp) and others. Coldfrixon has said some of profiling differences can be resolved with EQ matching, or at least limited enough to be undetectable in a mix, but others cannot. Whether all the producers, artists, or people who use Kemper acknowledge this or not, the wav forms don't change. To Coldfrixons point, this isn't something he's pulled out of his butt and the number of users who have correctly picked out Kemper in relation to the profiled amp demonstrates that difference.

    I hear you. I could see having that point of view. I'm not deriding a person reasonably reading such threads and thinking there's something in them.


    Here's some observations:
    1) Every modeler has both sides using A/B comparisons on YouTube. Helix, Line 6, Fractal, Kemper, Bias, etc. There are just so many things that can make a recorded amp sound different (equipment chain used, mic placement, engineering skill, etc) So I'm not surprised people can't profile exactly. But those that DO profile well, it's quite an awakening moment to match commercial recordings perfectly. My fav is TAF for that, but you need the right guitar and have to match the effects, too. Point is, it takes real skill by a trained engineer with years of experience to profile perfectly. And they charge for it. (Many who can't do it well still charge, but the good ones almost always so. Wagener, TAF, MBritt who uses engineers.)


    2) How scientific is the setup to being an honest blind A/B test? Most don't know Science from Sconce. Musicians doing a Science experiment? Do the conduct surgery, too?


    3) Humans are hard wired to have Conformation Bias and most are entirely unaware that they employ this 100% of the time.
    So if a person guesses something correct 50/50 they think they won. In fact, if you study people and what they 'believe' rather convincingly, you come up against many terms most are unaware of.


    To name a few: Bias Blind Spot, Illusory Correlation, Illusion of Validity, Omission Bias, Selective Perception, Outcome Bias, Self-Serving Bias, Choice-Supportive Bias, False Memory, Misattribution, and many more. But you get the point. People are not computers, they are squishy belief systems. And IF they aren't trained to be objectively unbiased, they just don't know how to be. Now I am not a psychologist, but I am a trained Chemist and Programmer, so I have a background in rigorous analytical skills and algorithm building. And I'm a born skeptic. I didn't believe Christoff Kemper could profile an amp tone, NO WAY. And I did all in my power to prove he couldn't and that his little gizzmo couldn't/wouldn't replace my many amps, some boutique amps. It took me the better part of a year, but in the end, blow me down, the bastard wasn't lying.


    You have to remember, Christoph is an Engineer. Engineers learn many techniques to guard against biases and do their work mathematically and probe experimentally using a scientific method. It the Kemper had some here-to-fore unknown problem that reared it's head in 2016 (5 years after being on the market) and proof of this problem were found with easily shown WAV files and Graphical Evidence, AND those problems were so easily fixed with the most laughable trick in the book "EQ/Tone Matching" well then, trust me, Christoff would easily incorporate it and laugh all the way to the bank and probably send a free Kemper to the genius who informed him. Heck, he'd probably hire such a genius a job.


    But there's no genius here. And Tone Matching isn't going to "Fix" a broken Kemper.


    That is a delightful fantasy. An Illusion of Grandeur from a mind that requires such things to feel important.


    Wait, I think I, too, just found a problem with the Kemper!! If you want the fix for it, just PayPal me $5,000 and I'll send you the secret! (hint: it involves tone matching)

  • Did you or did you not listen to the samples in the thread I posted?
    Just an FYI, Andy Sneap EQ matches profiles.

    Don't confuse profiling that uses TM to match the ballpark sound of an old recording (what Sneaps is doing) to it's application for an amp. (it took all my restraint to write that in a mature way)


    The Profiling method can't probe a recording's dynamics like it does a cabinet. That's a misapplication of it's intended purpose.
    Sneaps has asked Kemper to incorporate it because it's a USEFUL function for approximating a RECORDED sounds, as opposed to an amp/cab.


    Also, PeterTurley (as I mentioned earlier) has been doing this long before they announced Sneap's "trick". Shout out to Pete's Profiles.


    IF, as you say, there are such noticeable differences, they would be easily seen on an EQ curve, A/B. Night and Day you would see the gaps in the curves.


    Do you seriously think Christoph Kemper didn't look at EQ curves of his A/B probing? That he somehow missed this for almost a decade? That's he's pulling the wool over our eyes when anyone with iZotope can see this for themselves?


    The answer is, it's not there. Kemper isn't lying to you. There is some other artifact causing it, if you are seeing it. Root it out. If you keep thinking the KPA's to blame, you won't allow yourself the intellectual honesty to find the real problem in your profiling. (I did IT for a number of years and this is priceless advice and a real turning mental point to solving problems of your own making)

  • Just because Christoph is a brilliant engineer doesn't mean everything is perfect. Early on they had to fix the low end in profiles. Then the mids weren't right, as pointed out by Lasse Lammert on this very forum. If the Kemper's engineering is impervious to criticism or critique, why was it not perfect to begin with. Did Christoph not look at the wav forms or EQ curves?


    Of course I'm just outlining that nothing is perfect and we are of course capable of pointing it out. Coldfrixon in past threads has shared EQ matches that helped bring profile vs source amp closer. His purpose in doing so was also answer criticism of the Kemper's profiling, but the obvious take away from those marathon threads was that the profile didn't immediately bake in the right EQ curve, so profiling isn't perfect. Some steps can be taken to close the gap, but the gap exists. Conceptually, if applying an EQ curve, ie Tone Match, to a profile makes it more accurate, that does speak volumes about its merits within the Axe.

  • 1) Every modeler has both sides using A/B comparisons on YouTube. Helix, Line 6, Fractal, Kemper, Bias, etc. There are just so many things that can make a recorded amp sound different (equipment chain used, mic placement, engineering skill, etc) So I'm not surprised people can't profile exactly.


    Here's a simple challenge. Look at the frequency spectrum of any profile from any profile creator with a spectrum analyzer and compare it with the frequency spectrum of the reference amp they used. The difference will usually be greater than 1dB somewhere along the curve. EQ matching basically compares both spectrums and compensates for the differences. That's why it works. Don't believe it? Try it yourself.


    Point is, it takes real skill by a trained engineer with years of experience to profile perfectly. And they charge for it.

    Okay, name one. Post a video of someone you deem a skilled professional A/B'ing their profile against a reference amp with perfect results. Andy Sneap's done it, but I've rarely seen an A/B comparison that's indistinguishable.


    2) How scientific is the setup to being an honest blind A/B test? Most don't know Science from Sconce. Musicians doing a Science experiment?


    Do you think ABX testing is administered by technicians wearing lab coats?


    3) Humans are hard wired to have Conformation Bias


    Which is precisely why blind testing is conducted; to eliminate confirmation bias.

  • Just because Christoph is a brilliant engineer doesn't mean everything is perfect. Early on they had to fix the low end in profiles. Then the mids weren't right, as pointed out by Lasse Lammert on this very forum. If the Kemper's engineering is impervious to criticism or critique, why was it not perfect to begin with. Did Christoph not look at the wav forms or EQ curves?


    Of course I'm just outlining that nothing is perfect and we are of course capable of pointing it out. Coldfrixon in past threads has shared EQ matches that helped bring profile vs source amp closer. His purpose in doing so was also answer criticism of the Kemper's profiling, but the obvious take away from those marathon threads was that the profile didn't immediately bake in the right EQ curve, so profiling isn't perfect. Some steps can be taken to close the gap, but the gap exists. Conceptually, if applying an EQ curve, ie Tone Match, to a profile makes it more accurate, that does speak volumes about its merits within the Axe.

    Wait a second, Sinmix, is that you?

  • Don't confuse profiling that uses TM to match the ballpark sound of an old recording (what Sneaps is doing) to it's application for an amp. (it took all my restraint to write that in a mature way)


    Sneap clearly explained that he EQ matched the signal first, then profiled the EQ matched signal. Jump to 5:23:


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    IF, as you say, there are such noticeable differences, they would be easily seen on an EQ curve, A/B. Night and Day you would see the gaps in the curves.


    Compare the frequency spectrum of practically any profile with its reference amp and they are. Do you have FabFilter? Please post a video of any A/B you think sounds identical and I'll post a comparison of the frequency spectrum, or you do it, either one.


    Do you seriously think Christoph Kemper didn't look at EQ curves of his A/B probing? That he somehow missed this for almost a decade? That's he's pulling the wool over our eyes when anyone with iZotope can see this for themselves?


    The KPA does implement spectral matching, but it apparently does it at the beginning of the profiling process, not the end. Anyone with a spectrum analyzer that has the ability to compare plots can confirm the differences for themselves. I have no reason to lie. I own a Kemper. I love it. There's nothing wrong with admitting the profiling process isn't altogether perfect and that results vary. I'm not going to pretend that what I can clearly see using a spectrum analyzer doesn't exist. If it really bugged me that much though, I would've already sold the KPA. It's not a huge deal. It's just an observation that I think warrants greater consideration from Christoph.


    There is some other artifact causing it, if you are seeing it. Root it out.


    If there's a difference between the frequency spectrum of two signals and upon correcting the discrepancy via EQ compensation the spectral and audible differences are greatly minimized, it logically follows that the spectral differences are at least partially responsible.

  • Again, you clearly don't understand what Sneap is doing, and how it differs from profiling an amp (in process and intent)
    Plus he isn't the first to discover that trick. Pete was doing that in 2013, welcome to the party in 2015, Mr. Sneap.


    But.. I don't have anymore time to explain it to you. I'll leave that up to someone else. Nice chat and all.

  • Again, you clearly don't understand what Sneap is doing, and how it differs from profiling an amp (in process and intent)
    Plus he isn't the first to discover that trick. Pete was doing that in 2013

    I know exactly what he's talking about because I considered doing it myself before I ever watched that video. It's an elementary concept that he clearly spelled out:


    "You do your profile through that (ie. the EQ match) and then you do the refining process with your DI and the recorded amp. Then you hear it come into shape as it does the refining process".


    It's not rocket science.

  • So Fractal says in their website that

    Wait a second, Sinmix, is that you?

    This is MementoMori, I had him on ignore in his original persona as well as this new one. The only thing that changed is the name. His original name means " Remember Death". 8o He's just resurrected but he's still as morbid as ever. I suggested that he would get a sense of humor to no avail.. He was pissed because the sun rose in the morning. and whatever the topic was at the kemper forum was LOL

  • So Fractal says in their website that

    This is MementoMori, I had him on ignore in his original persona as well as this new one. The only thing that changed is the name. His original name means " Remember Death". 8o He's just resurrected but he's still as morbid as ever. I suggested that he would get a sense of humor to no avail.. He was pissed because the sun rose in the morning. and whatever the topic was at the kemper forum was LOL

    Keep guessing, not that it would matter and you’d still be left avoiding every challenge placed to you. So far you’ve been absolutely convinced about 6 different times with who I am. The constant assuming and dancing is its own form of entertainment. But hey, whatever keeps you from having to confront each fallacy you stack on top of the other.

  • P.S.A:
    These are the current AXE FX II prices updated on reverb a major musical gear marketplace where you can sell your own used gear or new. and also buy.


    I don't see one compelling reason to upgrade to AXE III but if you must, I recommend selling the AXE FX II and not updating to AXE III because there's nothing really new., Instead I recommend you get a Kemper, it's cheaper and the modeling for sure is better, The effects aren't as many on the Kemper, but there are many unique effects in the Kemper that you won't get any where else. Your guitar mixes will sound more compelling and better way better that you'd expect and were used to with the AXE II.


    The AXE FX II sold yesterday for as low as one grand!! and the price keeps dropping.


    Edit: another compelling reason to abandon the AXE FX Platform for those who care about integrity, you won't be giving your hard earned money to a company that's only interested in milking your loyalty by lying and cheating.


    [Blocked Image: https://i.imgur.com/ad5rR7A.jpg]

    Edited 5 times, last by Dean_R ().


  • P.S.A:
    These are the current AXE FX II prices updated on reverb a major musical gear where you can sell your own used gear or new. and also buy.


    I don't see one compelling reason to upgrade to AXE III but if you must, I recommend selling the AXE FX II and not updating to AXE III because there's nothing really new., Instead I recommend you get a Kemper, it's cheaper and the modeling for sure is better, The effects aren't as many on the Kemper, but there are many unique effects in the Kemper that you won't get any where else. Your guitar mixes will sound more compelling and better way better that you'd expect and were used to with the AXE II.


    The AXE FX II sold yesterday for as low as one grand!! and the price keeps dropping.
    [Blocked Image: https://i.imgur.com/ad5rR7A.jpg]

    Whodathunk, Kemper cheerleader bloviates assumptions about the new Axe-FX and suggests people buy Kemper. Stop the presses! Also says modeling is better while avoiding guessing between an Axe tone match of a profile with any weak rationalization he can grasp onto.

  • The AXE FX II sold yesterday for as low as one grand!! and the price keeps dropping.

    Many of the people who are selling their Axe FX II are using the money to upgrade to the Axe FX III.


    Instead I recommend you get a Kemper, it's cheaper and the modeling for sure is better


    If you really thought the modeling was so much better, you would've taken my blind test when I first posted it, before you attacked my credibility.

  • welll uhm nevermind...
    i couldn't delete my post ... so here s a nonsense comment

  • Many of the people who are selling their Axe FX II are using the money to upgrade to the Axe FX III.

    If you really thought the modeling was so much better, you would've taken my blind test when I first posted it, before you attacked my credibility.

    I've listened to them and they are pretty damn close.


    As far as price drop for AFX, I've went to Reverb, the prices are all over. Same with Kemper in a way. For one, price usually depends on how long you have it. I usually sell things for half of what I paid if its been a few years. Closer to full price if its been a few months. For example I recently sold a head I paid $4000 for for a little over $2000. 2 years old. So what. I didn't care, just a quick cash grab.


    When I see posts about sales and such, and not even so much of a listen to a blind test out of fear (yes fear, you may choose the wrong one (gasp)) Then I see extreme bias. There is no longer a reason to continue with that viewpoint, you need others to make an assessment.


    There is nothing wrong with either AFX or Kemper. Musicians all over make either sound great. And that is my thing, how good are you? I can play through anything and make it sing. For me and many others, it all comes down to how much of a pleasure or aggravation is it to make your gear do what you need it to do. That's it.


    I have been messing with guitars and amps since the mid 80's. I have YET to see any guitarist EVER 100% satisfied with ANYTHING. To me, if you are totally satisfied than you are a novice. True tone seekers are like explorers, we go off the beaten path and forge new trails seeing whats out there.


    This all comes back to application. easy or a PITA? Can it do what I need? How much BS do I have to surf through to make musical applications not video game noise? etc... etc...

  • 《Michael Jackson eating popcorn》


    Would anyone like some Sour Patch Kids? :rolleyes:


    I originally bought the Kemper because it could profile an axe fx. LMAO 8o


    So what does that really say? ?(


    The Kemper is Morgan Freeman talking to me a couple feet away but he's holding a small thin napkin in front of his Face. I know it's him.


    That's what this is. The axe isn't much different but it is different sometimes? :huh:


    Some days, I prefer a couple pedals stacked, running them into the effects return or power amp in of any amp. I made a profile with amp turned off for cleans cab on and dist stomps for the dirtdirt with cab on, did the same on my helix with and without multiple stacked IR's and loved it so I profiled that too. Try it , I dare you, any of you. I'll do the same with an Axe III. Or even better. There's a chance for new tones and yall wanna cry ,moan, or slap fight each other like a bunch of sophisticated internet sissy Sonic The Tonehog man babies. Lol


    It's funny though. I don't really know why I keep reading this thread. I sometimes skip around because I get bored but lucky me, yall keep quoting each other so I don't miss a thing. Not that I would miss anything if you all didn't quote each other. I also keep waiting to read something useful HAHA ;) jus playin, sorta


    Just for fun i would like to test my might at the audio samples. I have no horse in the race and could care less of the outcome. I also have never owned an axe fx or played one but have heard them here and there. Chairs kitties! <3