I was toying with the idea of trading away my Kemper again, this time for an Axe FX.
Got cold feet in the end, lol
First rule: Never sell gear unless you are starving, you always regret it. If you need an Axe FX, save up and buy one, how hard is it to save a few grand? Better to keep it, also by and Axe Fx, use both. 
I have tube amps, rack gear, Kemper, etc... Not as much as I did, but just my favs. When I get bored with one I have the other.
Display MoreThen I have used this sub forum correctly, since the AX3 is an interface to a computer:
Axe Fx 3:
The Center of your Music Workstation
A 16-core, 500 MHz microcontroller provides 16 channels of flawless USB audio (8 in, 8 out) allowing the Axe-Fx III to be the center of your music workstation. The audiophile-grade signal path components and converters provide better audio performance than most dedicated USB audio interfaces.
USB In (from Axe-Fx III to Computer)
1+2: Output 1
3+4: Output 2
5+6: Input 1 (DI for reamping)
7+8: Input 2 (for general use)
USB Out (from computer to Axe-Fx III)
1+2: Routed to physical Output 1 L+R
3+4: Routed to physical Output 2 L+R
5+6: Routed to the Grid via INPUT 1 block when its source is set to USB
7+8: Routed to the Grid via the dedicated INPUT USB block
The Kemper profiler can be used in conjunction with this also if desired.
It might be a good idea to buy one then and celebrate your success on a fractal forum. Just a thought
It might be a good idea to buy one then and celebrate your success on a fractal forum. Just a thought
Who said I wanted to buy one? And success at what? a purchase? That's hard? You need to be more clear.
I think it's interesting for sure to hear about new products. You want to identify if the technology you're using is actually evolving and want to be the first to know if something new is actually pushing further and making life easier for those of us (presumably everyone here) to use a digital device instead of the dreaded tube amp with all of it's quirks and limitations even though they give the ultimate sound.
It's hard to see how the new announced AXE FX III or Helix are advancing the modeling and that's really where the challenge is.
FX have reached stellar levels more than 20 to 30 years ago with Lexicon, Digitech GSP , eventide etc. too many to list. For effects, you can get the latest Line 6 HX effect pedal and you won't miss a beat for a fraction of the cost of an AXE III if you care about effects.
I’m just finding it odd that guitar amp sim pedals continue to go up in price so much, while VSTs which are only getting better and better and have narrowed the gap for recording to virtually nothing stay at the same around $100 price.
I’m glad I got a Kemper when it first came out. But it’s getting harder to justify these sorts of prices for the convenience of hardware.
People get sidetracked by options, but that's a personal issue, not a hardware issue...
In my opinion it's completely a hardware issue and the only personal aspect of it is choosing what product to buy. If you buy a tube amp, drive pedal or two three pedals instead of multi effect or fridge size rack with various units, you know you won't be side tracked.
If you buy a Kemper for AMP modeling there is much much less chance of getting side tracked in routing and parameters that in reality require tremendous amounts of education an reading about complex electrical circuits at a minimum to understand what these parameters do, not that there's anything wrong with it because it's actually very educational and can be a lot of fun for the right person.
A guitar player however, not meaning no disrespect anyone, shouldn't really be bothered with that much and the existence of such Plethora of parameters should give a clear indication of what to expect for anyone who considers buying the product. By the way I think the same thing happens with those buying the Kemper who don't fully understand what they're buying. I've heard of people buying the Kemper and comparing the recorded amp profile to the guitar in the room sound.
The way I see it, the AXE FX and Helix are experimental units that could produce nice alternative amp sounds, while the Kemper captures authentic amp tones. That still hasn't changed as of recently.
The AXE FX requires much more technical skills and you're ability to capture an IR using the AXE FX highlights my point.
It might be simple for you to learn, but you're clearly an advance user who educated themselves to a point where you can really utilize and understand the AXE FX, don't presume that most guitar players are willing to even consider that as something that they're willing to dedicate any time to. When you add all the other complex routing and parameters, AXE FX and Kemper seem like completely different products and they are.
In my opinion it's completely a hardware issue and the only personal aspect of it is choosing what product to buy. If you buy a tube amp, drive pedal or two three pedals instead of multi effect or fridge size rack with various units, you know you won't be side tracked.
Hardware can't make anyone do anything. If a person can't exercise some self restraint, that's a personal issue. The Axe FX isn't responsible for what you or I do. We are.
The AXE FX requires much more technical skills and you're ability to capture an IR using the AXE FX highlights my point.
It might be simple for you to learn, but you're clearly an advance user who educated themselves to a point where you can really utilize and understand the AXE FX, don't presume that most guitar players are willing to even consider that as something that they're willing to dedicate any time to.
I don't make many presumptions about other users, but I'd contend that it's not necessary to understand and use the advanced parameters in order to create great tones.
I think it's interesting for sure to hear about new products. You want to identify if the technology you're using is actually evolving and want to be the first to know if something new is actually pushing further and making life easier for those of us (presumably everyone here) to use a digital device instead of the dreaded tube amp with all of it's quirks and limitations even though they give the ultimate sound.
It's hard to see how the new announced AXE FX III or Helix are advancing the modeling and that's really where the challenge is.
FX have reached stellar levels more than 20 to 30 years ago with Lexicon, Digitech GSP , eventide etc. too many to list. For effects, you can get the latest Line 6 HX effect pedal and you won't miss a beat for a fraction of the cost of an AXE III if you care about effects.
I don't the Helix effects are in the same league as the Axe Fx effects. Not even close.
I’m just finding it odd that guitar amp sim pedals continue to go up in price so much, while VSTs which are only getting better and better and have narrowed the gap for recording to virtually nothing stay at the same around $100 price.
Production costs. The chips in the Axe aren't cheap. And I don't think the III costs more than the II used to do a few months ago.
I don't the Helix effects are in the same league as the Axe Fx effects. Not even close.
Speaking of Fractal effects I think they are good but way overhyped in their marketing.
Quality comes from code and algorithms, not super horsepower, that fractal often insinuates in their marketing.
There is not one effect from Fractal Audio that I prefer over my choice from favorite hardware or software effects.
I think the Helix in general has better drive pedals, univibe and a few others than the fractal effects.
I think the kemper has better pitch (also pure tuning and formant shift), transpose, compressor, chorus, delays, wah wah, ambient room space reverb, leslie, tuner, than both fractal and line 6.
I don't the Helix effects are in the same league as the Axe Fx effects. Not even close.Production costs. ..
Last time I compared the AXE FX II effects to Eleven Rack, the reverb of Eleven was actually better and it was interesting because I was reading in the gear page where CLiff the maker of the axe FX posted how good the eleven Rack reverb sounded and that he didn't know how they could sell it as low as they did.
Eleven's reverb was based on Reverb one plugin so I presume that the new Head Rush reverb is just as good. Also the modulations on the Eleven Rack as well as the tape delay, and rotary were among the best anywhere.
I can understand how products like the AXE III can market as boutique and command such price as Per has alluded to, but so far I can justify the Kemper based on AMP modeling but there's clearly no justification for those prices on effects alone for guitar players who could do and would be quite happy with a spring reverb for that matter except for a small segment who simply must have the most expensive product. Every market for all types of product has that segment and wisely Fractal has targeted that market as they have identified it, but it certainly not based on sound quality or musicality, it's mainly identifying the target market who will only buy the name brand at any cost, once the brand has been established, some or at least enough will follow regardless.
Display More
Speaking of Fractal effects I think they are good but way overhyped in their marketing.
Quality comes from code and algorithms, not super horsepower, that fractal often insinuates in their marketing.
There is not one effect from Fractal Audio that I prefer over my choice from favorite hardware or software effects.
I think the Helix in general has better drive pedals, univibe and a few others than the fractal effects.
I think the kemper has better pitch (also pure tuning and formant shift), transpose, compressor, chorus, delays, wah wah, ambient room space reverb, leslie, tuner, than both fractal and line 6.
Higher quality effects often use algorithms that are more CPU intensive. Reverbs set to high quality in the Axe FX require more horsepower than Reverbs set to normal. I do tend to prefer the reverbs in the Axe FX vs. the KPA. I've compared the tuners side by side and in my experience they're equal. The Axe's effects offer a lot more versatility with the editor.
Every market for all types of product has that segment and wisely Fractal has targeted that market as they have identified it, but it certainly not based on sound quality or musicality
Says who? I'm not sure how you came to that conclusion, but there are any number of reputable guitarists who can afford any effects box on the planet and tour with the Axe FX. They're also not paid for their endorsement nor given free gear.
Well I can see this thread is about to go round and round. Think I'm just gonna buy a Headrush instead. LOLOL
CHAIRS!!! 
Says who? I'm not sure how you came to that conclusion, but there are any number of reputable guitarists who can afford any effects box on the planet and tour with the Axe FX. They're also not paid for their endorsement nor given free gear.
There are bigger names using Line 6 if we're going to drop names which proves to me personally that this is just simply catering to a market that can afford these prices and not necessarily providing proportionally additional quality. That also extends to the Kemper side as Kemper has taken a chunk of that market too. I don't mean it in negative way, it's just a type of consumer, that don't want to bother with anything but the best name brand. Many folks in this market will buy guitars from Suhr, Tom Anderson etc, where a huge part of the price comes from name brand association as buying best of the best which isn't necessarily the case all the time.even though it's a safe bet that the product you're buying won't be inferior to any..
Yes there are also those who can't afford either, but diligently save to get one. I don't claim to know that percentage make up but at 2500 for a guitar product it's certainly considered boutique and out of the reach of most working musicians and new hobbyists.
In the case of the Kemper however, you can easily argue that it provides a unique simple approach with amp tones that uses a unique advanced technology never seen or tried before, so it's unique in that aspect and frankly it works providing more accurate amp models., I'm glad kemper doesn't have another 12 input or even an audio interface.
Higher quality effects often use algorithms that are more CPU intensive. Reverbs set to high quality in the Axe FX require more horsepower than Reverbs set to normal. I do tend to prefer the reverbs in the Axe FX vs. the KPA. I've compared the tuners side by side and in my experience they're equal. The Axe's effects offer a lot more versatility with the editor.
What matters is great efficient and smart coded algorithms and it's proven many times that great sounding effects doesn't require expensive big horsepower. Fractals marketing fails when they year after year claim they don't compromise with quality and then talks all about horsepower. Then why does Kemper, digitech, electroharmonix have better pitch effects?
Because of better algorithms, not dsp horsepower. Why do I and many others prefer several other effects in units with much lower dsp horsepower than fractal? Why did the dsp powerful Axe fx 2 sound a bit better later compared to the first firmware, because of reprogramming. For Axe 3 fractal now says they needed to compromise in previous units because of lower horsepower, despite their marketing claims saying they don't compromise.
Give 100 programmers the task to create a modeler and it will result in 100 different codes and algorithms. Some can do it great and very efficient, some will not be so good and also be a cpu hog, and everything in between.
Every company makes marketing choises. Fractal has chosen the "more horsepower must sound better" approach.
They are even targeting the notorious "audiophiles" now in their latest marketing for Axe fx 3. It's surprising because not many serious companies want to be asociated with audiophiles. (Marking pen on cd's improves sound, oxygen free colden cables and a bunch of other stuff sold based on hyperbole, belief and more expensive must be better).
Is any of the other modeling companies targeting audiophiles in their marketing?
Fractal is always pushing very hard to convince consumers that horsepower equals better sound.
From a consumer standpoint I think this is a psycological marketing trap that some will fall into, others won't.
Horsepower is great for using many things at the same time (multiple amps and fx chains), but not for sound quality.
Most know that a DAW project will sound the same in a low or high powered cpu computer. The big difference is how many channels and plugins can be used at the same time. VST plugin companies are competing in having awesome effects and amp sims coded as efficient as possible, nobody is marketing their products as more demanding and heavier on cpu.
I can play great sounding software amps and effects on computers with huge variety in spec and horsepower and the sound is identical. Even a low powered pc will play just fine with plenty of cpu left. The sound is in the code and algorithms, not in the cpu power, even the cheaper cpu's and dsps are powerful enough for programming stellar code and algorithms for amp and effect sounds.
I prefer the FX comp/delay/reverbs personally. These things are choices, but I do think that even independently reviewed, the FX has more pleasing reverbs.
It's why I'm dying for Kemper to work on their stated Reverb overhaul, like they did for Delays.
I had the 11 Rack and the Reverb was nice, but not Eventide nice. I think the FX is better than Eventide's H9, which I sold when I got the FX8 and compared.
The FX has effects that are really amazing, but some are not near as good as pedals, and this is true of all pedal modelers. They all have their strengths and weaknesses.
And people like me have subjective preferences based on what algorithms these companies have chosen. The Kemper has great Reverbs. Just not as 3D as H9 or FXII/8 IMO.
Thats why a thread like this is useful. We can learn about units we can patch into Kemper's loop effect! (and make everyone happy)
NEVER did anybody tell me: wow, your reverb/delay/what-not sounds great, neither live or on a track I recorded... NEVER! And nobody ever complained! Or even asked for a different kind of reverb/delay...
I wouldn't knock the new Axe Fx, although I think the Kemper sounds better, Fractal Audio is light years away when it comes to effects and the ability to have more control over many parameters. I've owned both Axe Fx Ultra and the Axe Fx 2 and they served me well for many years without any issues.
Display MoreCan you imagine getting a modeling guitar with knobs/settings such as:
* fret noise knobs (volume and timber)
* string manufacturer
* cord impedance (Jimi Hendrix white coily cable preset!)
* simulated magnitudes for pickup magnet strength (ie old 1950s to new)
* pickup magnet alloy type selector
* pickup wire width, number of wraps
* activated pickups switch
* single/double/P90 selector,
* body wood density
* toggle for set neck vs screwed neck
* toggle for Rosewood vs Maple (or selector for Ebony, too)
* toggle for Steel vs Nickel frets
* shielded vs unshielded electronics compartment
* settings for bumble bee vs orange drop vs etc
* choice of "scratchy pots" (<--- patented technology)
* linear vs logarithmic pots
* different routings, i.e. separate volume vs master volume and separate tone controls
* pickup selector dummy switch for the Pete Townshend trick
* lacquer vs nitrocellulose vs hippie painted vs breathable unfinished wood coatings
* 60 cycle hum control
* FX pitch correction for tightly pressed sharp sounding notes, or incorrectly bent ones
* reverse pot selector
* dual post opening for whammy bar (in case you like it on top vs bottom)
* toggle for brass vs nickel vs stainless steel bridge
* locked string selection to mimic old Tele bridge intonation
* knob for deadened Blues tone from old to new strings
* toggle for old rusted string out-of-pitch warble
* pickup height selector (with realistic warble for too-high setting)
* sustain control to simulate floating vs hardtail (and to digitally go beyond to simulate Ebow
(obviously, one can go on near indefinitely)
When you asked for a preset for "Fender American" or "1959 Les Paul" guitars you are told "don't have those because owners of this type of guitar like to do their own thing."
But seriously, with all the choices, how much playing time would people get in?
Think of all the possible terrible combinations to it's infinite variety vs a boutique guitar that is ALL just suite spots?
There needs to be a big variac-type knob in the middle labeled Player Skill. 
I used to own the Fractal Axe FX 2 XL+ before I bought the Kemper... I also had the Axe FX Standard before that, I used Axe FX for several years and never could get really good tones from it. Sure I heard some videos of others getting a few good tones here and there but apparenty you have to be a rocket science tweaker to get them. I bought the Kemper due to my frustration and struggle with te Axe Fx 2XL+, and I get amazing tones instantly with the Kemper.
I don't care about the AXE FX effects, no matter how good they are, they aren't Strymons and they aren't Eventides like Vai used either. If I want good effects, that's what I will do for effects.
If I want instant amazing amp tone with zero twaeking, I use a Kemper and buy good profiles. Done.
I have not heard the Axe 3 yet, but I read the specs forum and site, and from that, I highly doubt it's going to sound much better if any than the Axe FX 2XL+ did, and probably just be as much complicated to tweak.
I don't wanna build a preset or have to tweak.
I want someone to put a Marshall amp in my room, mic it up and dial it in to the sweetest spot posibble...and that's EXACTLY what the Kemper has done for me consistently, it's just like having some one dial in the tone for me on a real amp and micing it up.
Cliff Chase is constantly trying to program his junk to mimic a real amp.
Christoph didn't even realease anything new at NAMM 2018... because the job with the Kemper is done.
The Kemper already does both what the Kemper and the Fractal and any other modeler set out to achieve, it recreates the exact sound of any recoreded amp you can imagine.
Fractal is just a lot of HYPE. and Marketing nonsense.
Kemper is the real deal.
I have no desire to ever go back to Fractal, and I have ZERO interest in Axe3.
I think anyone that owns a Kemper and even wastes time thinking about looking into getting a Fractal is a deaf fool.
