Fractal Axe Fx 3

Quote from yngwierhoadsvaivaughan

I used to own the Fractal Axe FX 2 XL+ before I bought the Kemper... I also had the Axe FX Standard before that, I used Axe FX for several years and never could get really good tones from it. Sure I heard some videos of others getting a few good tones here and there but apparenty you have to be a rocket science tweaker to get them. I bought the Kemper due to my frustration and struggle with te Axe Fx 2XL+, and I get amazing tones instantly with the Kemper.

I don't care about the AXE FX effects, no matter how good they are, they aren't Strymons and they aren't Eventides like Vai used either. If I want good effects, that's what I will do for effects.

If I want instant amazing amp tone with zero twaeking, I use a Kemper and buy good profiles. Done.

I have not heard the Axe 3 yet, but I read the specs forum and site, and from that, I highly doubt it's going to sound much better if any than the Axe FX 2XL+ did, and probably just be as much complicated to tweak.

I don't wanna build a preset or have to tweak.

I want someone to put a Marshall amp in my room, mic it up and dial it in to the sweetest spot posibble...and that's EXACTLY what the Kemper has done for me consistently, it's just like having some one dial in the tone for me on a real amp and micing it up.

Cliff Chase is constantly trying to program his junk to mimic a real amp.

Christoph didn't even realease anything new at NAMM 2018... because the job with the Kemper is done.

The Kemper already does both what the Kemper and the Fractal and any other modeler set out to achieve, it recreates the exact sound of any recoreded amp you can imagine.

Fractal is just a lot of HYPE. and Marketing nonsense.

Kemper is the real deal.

I have no desire to ever go back to Fractal, and I have ZERO interest in Axe3.

I think anyone that owns a Kemper and even wastes time thinking about looking into getting a Fractal is a deaf fool.

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The axe is junk now?

Sometimes the fanboyism on this forum is worse than on the Fractal forum.

Quote from Finally

There needs to be a big variac-type knob in the middle labeled Player Skill.

With all those knobs and switches, it really IS all in the "fingers"!

Quote from fredrikn

The axe is junk now?
Sometimes the fanboyism on this forum is worse than on the Fractal forum.

Well he just kind of illustrated the plug-n-play nature of the KPA. Christoph put a lot into the interface to help create this "ease".

I must be a weirdo because I found the FXII's interface to be intuitive, but compared to 80's rack mount effect units it is. Compared to the POD XT maybe not, haha.
People are at different levels. I think I'm one of those, as stated above, who needs to watch the compulsion and keep it simpler.

The Kemper is essentially as Einstein put it: "everything should be made as simple as it an be, but not simpler"

Quote from fredrikn

The axe is junk now?
Sometimes the fanboyism on this forum is worse than on the Fractal forum.

Yes, the AXE FX is JUNK. I'm allowed to say that you see because I owned two of the units for several years, it never lived up to the hype. I am not a fanboy of Kemper. I just speak the truth about the two different products, both of which I have owned, and the Kemper I continue to own. The fractal never produced acceptable tones to my standards, therefore it is junk. However the Kemper exceeds my wildest expectations in terms of amp tone.

Quote from HappyKemper

What matters is great efficient and smart coded algorithms and it's proven many times that great sounding effects doesn't require expensive big horsepower.

Sure. That's why the Bricasti M7 costs nearly $4K and has 6 dual core DSP's despite the fact it's devoted exclusively to reverb.

Quote from HappyKemper

Then why does Kemper, digitech, electroharmonix have better pitch effects? Because of better algorithms, not dsp horsepower.

I never claimed algorithm efficiency wasn't important, but do you honestly think the KPA or Axe FX II's capabilities would've been possible on 20 year old hardware? There's a reason the KPA has a hard limit on the number of simultaneous effects you can use while the Axe is capable of instantiating 12 or more effects, including two reverbs blocks.

Quote from HappyKemper

Why do I and many others prefer several other effects in units with much lower dsp horsepower than fractal?

To each their own, of course. Why do some people prefer the sound of the amp models in the Amplifire over the Kemper or Axe FX II?

Quote from HappyKemper

Why did the dsp powerful Axe fx 2 sound a bit better later compared to the first firmware, because of reprogramming.

Read the release notes. In many cases newer measurements (of models) replaced older measurements. Cliff often replaced older methods of calculation with more accurate methods. In some cases new parameters were added.

Quote from HappyKemper

Give 100 programmers the task to create a modeler and it will result in 100 different codes and algorithms. Some can do it great and very efficient, some will not be so good and also be a cpu hog, and everything in between.

Okay, and how many modelers can you name that have mediocre specs and are considered top tier?

Quote from HappyKemper

They are even targeting the notorious "audiophiles" now in their latest marketing for Axe fx 3. It's surprising because not many serious companies want to be asociated with audiophiles. (Marking pen on cd's improves sound, oxygen free colden cables and a bunch of other stuff sold based on hyperbole, belief and more expensive must be better). Is any of the other modeling companies targeting audiophiles in their marketing?

Honestly, I couldn't care less.

Quote from HappyKemper

Fractal is always pushing very hard to convince consumers that horsepower equals better sound.

There's a reason most modern high quality plugins today either wouldn't run on 20 year old hardware or run like garbage.

Quote from HappyKemper

Horsepower is great for using many things at the same time (multiple amps and fx chains), but not for sound quality.

Tell that to Bricasti.

Quote from HappyKemper

The big difference is how many channels and plugins can be used at the same time.

Why can't you run an unlimited number of super high quality plugins? Do you think all high quality VST's who's algorithms are CPU intensive are such because the developers simply didn't code them efficiently? Can you name a single developer that's created a simulation of a guitar amp running in real-time using SPICE on standard, everyday PC / Mac hardware? If not, why not? Is it because all developers are inefficient coders or because some simulations are so intensive that despite the best efforts of coders to design efficient algorithms, the simulation simply requires more powerful hardware.

Quote from HappyKemper

VST plugin companies are competing in having awesome effects and amp sims coded as efficient as possible, nobody is marketing their products as more demanding and heavier on cpu.

Ever heard of Universal Audio?

Quote from HappyKemper

The sound is in the code and algorithms, not in the cpu power, even the cheaper cpu's and dsps are powerful enough for programming stellar code and algorithms for amp and effect sounds.

It's no wonder consumers can run numerous instances of high quality VST's today. Assuming OS compatibility weren't an issue, do you honestly think you'd be able to run the same number of high quality plugins today on a 20 year old PC? Technology hasn't stood still for the last 20 years. It's significantly faster and cheaper today than it was then. That's why you're able to run numerous instances of those stellar algorithms in your DAW today.

The same is true for gaming. Even if you could adapt a 20 year old video card to run a game like Battlefield 1, the frame rate wouldn't even come close to the blistering level of a slideshow.

Quote from yngwierhoadsvaivaughan

Yes, the AXE FX is JUNK. I'm allowed to say that you see because I owned two of the units for several years, it never lived up to the hype. I am not a fanboy of Kemper. I just speak the truth about the two different products, both of which I have owned, and the Kemper I continue to own. The fractal never produced acceptable tones to my standards, therefore it is junk. However the Kemper exceeds my wildest expectations in terms of amp tone.

Obviously the Axe FX isn't junk, unless you think guys like Bob Rock, Alex Lifeson and John Petrucci don't know quality gear from junk.

Honestly and hopefully to lighten the mood, from the prospective of someone who uses tube amps and doesn't find this digital stuff to work, all of this digital stuff is junk. So this is really all personal opinions, I've heard many refer to Line 6 gear as junk and I don't think it should be taken personal, It's a figure of speech to illustrate personal dissatisfaction with a product. When I tried the AXE FX II , I thought the amp models where extremely harsh and didn't feel right compared with the Kemper.

If someone is giving a review and decides to use the word junk, then, to him it' is junk and no point in attacking him personally by saying he's a fan boy. I personally never liked the sound of the amp modeler on the AXE FX from it's early version, the Ultra and thought that POD HD and Eleven sounded better, does that make me fan boy,. If it makes someone feel better calling other fan boys because they're supposed to like a product just because its fan base feel very strongly about it, I'd have to say, that's fan boyism too

It's not the first time I've heard someone refer to the AXE FX as junk as many players who tried it thought it was extremely harsh from the start and wasn't worth the time and effort to learn to make it work when other systems are simple plug and play, but never like to openly voice their opinion because they get attacked by AXE FX fans.

I don't want to sound harsh, but if the improvement is in adding ridiculous number of output and inputs and pumping up processing DSP speed without any significant improvement in modeling and I'm in the market for a good amp modeler, then honest truth, is that yes, to me the AXE FX III would still be considered junk to me as did the previous iterations, because I wouldn't even consider it specially at that price tag, when all I want is good modeling.

Truthfully, the Helix is also junk in regards to amp model compared to the amp tones coming out of the Kemper. It's a personal opinion based on personal experience and not being stated as a fact regardless of endorsement and who among the big names is using which. .Likewise If someone who likes the AXE because it works better for them and they consider the Kemper Junk, why should I call them fan boys and why should I be offended. GUitar players refer to gear they don't use or like as junk all the time, why should the AXE FX be an exception. Am I a fan boy of the Kemer, of course I am and it makes every sense because based on first hand trying and listening, nothing sounds or feel as good to my ears. Simple as that.

The FXII isn't junk; thats not a fair assessment.

It can nail 80's prog rock for sure. All day long. Rush (Lifeson), Vai, Satriani.

It takes the right guitars for both modelers to nail commercial tones.

I personally think the Kemper shines at early amps that are light on effects but all over commercial recordings of the 50s-70s,
but can also profile newer decades no problem but is challenged to match modern effects to exactitude.

The general consensus you see touted by most who know both units is that and FXII satisfies for most effects and the KPA for most profiled amps and having both is the rack is the optimal beast.
I know (this is anecdotal) an engineer for a very famous American group who has this opinion and routinely chats with me when I stop where he works (off tour) about both units.
He doesn't talk in a "better/worse" way but more a "This for those songs, that for these songs, both in this way" setup.

IOW, tools for a job!

We are rather picky players on these forums, but we are splitting hairs on this subject concerning "tone".

Quote from Dean_R

Likewise If someone who likes the AXE because it works better for them and they consider the Kemper Junk, why should I call them fan boys and why should I be offended. Guitar players refer to gear they don't use or like as junk all the time, why should the AXE FX be an exception. Am I a fan boy of the Kemer, of course I am and it makes every sense because based on first hand trying and listening, nothing sounds or feel as good to my ears. Simple as that.

People are entitled to think whatever they want, but I'm more inclined to trust my own experience and / or listen to opinions from professionals I respect than someone who has a contrary opinion that I don't know from Adam.

Quote from ColdFrixion

I'm more inclined to trust my own experience and / or listen to opinions from professionals I respect than someone who has a contrary opinion that I don't know from Adam.

I learned that professionals opinion regardless of how much I respect them is really meaningless in comparison with trying the piece of gear. myself I think and enjoy Peavey classic 30 as one of my all time favorite amps much better than than Messa amps that countless big names told me to like. it wont' bother me how many players consider Peavey junk.

The beauty of the Kemper is that I have very good profiles of the Peavey classic 30 and it amazes me how much I love those profiles. Actually I also discovered that I like profiles of the Mesa Mark V but not other Mesa amps, not sure if it is supposed to be different in reality or is is just a fluke. but I might have to try a Mark V and see.

AXE FX platform will never give me access to these amps because tone match is gimmick and worse than that, to my ears the AXE FX II amp models are extremely harsh and non musical regardless of who's playing or using it, to add insult to injury , it's also expensive. .

.

Quote from yngwierhoadsvaivaughan

Yes, the AXE FX is JUNK. I'm allowed to say that you see because I owned two of the units for several years, it never lived up to the hype. I am not a fanboy of Kemper. I just speak the truth about the two different products, both of which I have owned, and the Kemper I continue to own. The fractal never produced acceptable tones to my standards, therefore it is junk.

If it is good enough for Fripp, The Edge and Hetfield/Hammet it is good enough for me.

Quote from Dean_R

I learned that professionals opinion regardless of how much I respect them is really meaningless in comparison with trying the piece of gear. myself I think and enjoy Peavey classic 30 as one of my all time favorite amps much better than than Messa amps that countless big names told me to like. it wont' bother me how many players consider Peavey junk.
The beauty of the Kemper is that I have very good profiles of the Peavey classic 30 and it amazes me how much I love those profiles. Actually I also discovered that I like profiles of the Mesa Mark V but not other Mesa amps, not sure if it is supposed to be different in reality or is is just a fluke. but I might have to try a Mark V and see.

AXE FX platform will never give me access to these amps because tone match is gimmick and worse than that, to my ears the AXE FX II amp models are extremely harsh and non musical regardless of who's playing or using it, to add insult to injury , it's also expensive. .

.

This is harsh and non musical?

Actually, to my ears, yes. I've never been a fan of Larry Mitchell, and I am not hearing anything in that clip tone-wise that the Axe Fx 2 XL+ could do as well.

Really, just seems like the Axe Fx 3 is all about a bigger screen, more power for effects etc. Nothing really new in terms of actual tone.

I only care about the raw tones.
I don't even use the effects in the Kemper.
I bought the Kemper because it gives me the tones I like.

You can name famous guitar players all day that play Axe Fx, it means nothing really. Maybe Larry likes his Axe 3, maybe he just likes playing it because he was given the product free or as a discount for endorsing it, who knows.

But I don't like the Axe Fx line.

I actually think a POD Bean by line 6 sounds better than the Axe FX 2. Proof here.

Bottom line a good player is gonna sound like a good player on anything they play on.

But for me, for my tone, nothing beats what the Kemper has done for me.

If you love Fractal so much, then sell your Kemper and go buy a Fractal. Nobody is telling you what to do.

I'm just stating my opinion, and what is a fact to me, and that is that Kempers profiles of amp tones is far superior and more realistic than anything Cliff Chase has ever produced in his product line so far.

To me, Kemper is as real as it can possibly get.

Kemper has no room for improvement in terms of amp tone.

I'm not here to debate.

I made my choice, I sold my Fractal and bought a Kemper.

If you wanna by a Fractal, that's your choice. Dosen't bother me at all, I don't have to hear your Fractal haha.

The Kemper has been the absolute best music gear purchase I've ever made.
I only wish I'd bought a Kemper in the first place instead of wasting years with the Fractal line.

I just bought 4 more packs of profiles from RockProfiles... the Carved Legacy, Mars Collection, Helios, and Super Marshall, and let me tell you, the tones I just got INSTANTLY, sounded the SAME as the tones I had heard played in the demo videos in each pack, and I didn't have to tweak a single knob. Instant gratification and ULTIMATE TONE. I just spend the last half hour playing. With the Fractal, I would have spent hours tweaking trying to find those tones in a box not even capable of producing real amp tone.

I like being able to listen to a Profiler sellers demos and being able to go, yes, I like that, I want that tone, that's what I need, that's the tone I heard in my head and just buying it and loading it up instantly.... I like being able to spend my time playing and composing music instead of most of my time trying to dial in tones.

I think if most Fractal users could demo a Kemper for a day and see how easy it is and how superior the tone is, they'd mostly all switch over, I believe that.

I don't want a modeler to try to be everything like the Fractal does... I just want a modeler that is an Amp, and that's exactly what the Kemper is to me and how I use it.

I liked this Ballad in D minor, awesome Yngwie tone!

i started to play in 1984~1985 and i had an old Zoom 9002 that has 8 bit processing i guess, it was stolen on a band's contest after a presentation on a theater here at São Paulo in 1991 i guess...long time ago... i replaced for a larger 16 bits new zoom and some effects doesn't sound so good as the formmer version, today zoom still remains with very good stomps and digital effects

after this zoom episode as i needed to make my living i end up solding all my gear and keeping just an old fender frontman 25 made in mexico and a cool guitar, but after some years of hard working on a web hosting server, i could save some money to buy another gears,

i saw Guthrie Govan's review about Boss BR-800 and i got one, man what a gear, it is an awesome state-of-art product, tested some korg kaoscilator effects on my guitar too, have some unique digital effects like the step phaser and some reverse echos that has low pass filters on another axis of control, crazy and good things, also a good digital flanger that is kind of rare (bit best of all others that i have testes)

then last year an studio that i used to work end up their activities, they sold me a rockman sustainor, some old alesis compressors, and some ehx gear, very cheap priced, that i hooked up all together in a rig, placing the BR-800 itself with the wah effect on a high gain preset through the sustainor ending on a boss rv6 reverb and then on the fender frontman 25

sounded so wicked that my other old band mates and other musicians started to gather here at my place to gigs

brought also some amazing pedals and tested Bias Amp and as i work everyday with computers i decide that i needed something that i could use without the computer

i got a Serrano Amp, that is a boutique tube amp very unique made here at Brazil by Andy Serrano

it has a switch to engage or disable the negative feedback loop, another one to select bias for el34 or 6l6, i use with a power soak and it is 30W and i have to attenuate 19DB to my ears survive!

never had played on a tube amp before, broke my mind...

i think that on the digital gear world, nowadays, we have this situation where you can have a good professional gear for a expensive price or a very cheap chinese gear that clones some of the other's functions and it is almost so good, and costs 10% of the price... but my curiosity about how kemper could simulate all that large and sophisticated rig was so much that i expended a "bit" more and got a Kemper rack with a simple Class D amp...

another good aspect is that i do not need to spend on other gear anymore, kemper has so much good effects and functions that i am satisfied for a while (until i earn and save money again : )

4 months has passed and i still learning and my ears getting used to the sounding every day, now i can say that kemper is very good, the first day it was close to other digital distortions or pedals, sometimes better than a regular tube screammer , very good delays, crystal delays are excelent, really impressive at a first look

but there is much more around it, the led collars, the main lcd and all multi colored leds, the way the design is intuitive within the interface and the possibility of profiling amps and pedals, well kemper is not a thing, is an environment to simulate and work at real layers too

sorry telling all my tale here but it is just to picture how complex is to compare both products, digital gears seems to sound all equal to "untrainned" ears, kemper profiled my tube amp very close to the original cranked sound

you need to spend time recording and listening to that to know and if fractal will or not sound better it is a matter of digital sound, will not be a real organic living sound, neither kemper...

but kemper surprised me, it did not lost it's value during time, i love the design and all the concept and for me it is definitely an state-of-art product

Quote from Awesome_Elvis

Well I can see this thread is about to go round and round. Think I'm just gonna buy a Headrush instead. LOLOL
CHAIRS!!!

I did,,,,after the, POD, XT, Digi 11,Helix, Fractal AX8,,
my Kemper and the Headrush, are the perfect combo,Kemper in the studio,and on big stages where we have time to set up and tear down, Headrush / powered cab,,,, at show cases, club gigs,,rush on and off gigs,
Until someone puts it all together,,, I'm good to go,,,,,other then the Jackson Ampworks McFly I just ordered to profile,,HA<<<<<<<<<<<<

Can we please stay on topic and discuss the unit rather than people's subjective opinion about whether it's crap or not?

It is really not helpful when X says that I know tone because blah blah and then Y says you're wrong, I know tone because blah blah.

For Pete's sake, does every thread about a competing device, FX, or whatever have to descend into these kinds of flame wars?

Perhaps I can suggest that mods like the kind @DonPetersen enforce the guidelines they stated so kindly earlier and start busting people for going off topic.

A lot of us just want to read more about the device and hear from some of our users who might happen to try one. The forums are a great place for that because not all of us spend hours everyday typing Axe FX in Google to see who publishes what.

The current discussion only tells me that X likes his Kemper very much, while Y has an Axe FX and thinks it can really sound good and then Z posts something that's 2,000 words long to justify his opinion that the Axe sucks.

Fanboyism is perfectly fine, guys. Just try not to make it so evident that the debate becomes a pissing contest.

Almost 200 posts and no one, NO ONE, here has played the Axe FX III so far..... So very much bla bla bla bla bla this, bla bla bla bla that. Djeezzzz, where do you guys get the time for this nonsense? It's like the whiners did not overcome the "No-Kemper-News-at-NAMM" and keep on whining in this thread.
You all should be ashamed.
And play your guitar more often

Quote from Dean_R

I learned that professionals opinion regardless of how much I respect them is really meaningless in comparison with trying the piece of gear.

If a pro I respect is getting the results I want, I'm more inclined to listen to him than some guy I don't know who's making wild claims that I tend to disagree with. I think most people are more inclined to listen to someone that's already achieving the results they want vs. people they don't know who are making perceived over the top and ridiculous assertions.

Quote from Dean_R

AXE FX platform will never give me access to these amps because tone match is gimmick and worse than that, to my ears the AXE FX II amp models are extremely harsh and non musical regardless of who's playing or using it, to add insult to injury , it's also expensive.

Firstly, Tone Matching is basically EQ matching, and EQ matching isn't a gimmick. It's actually an extremely powerful tool. I'm assuming you've never used it, because if you had, and if you'd used it effectively, you'd know just how powerful it is.

Secondly, if you'd ever compared the Axe models to the amp section of the Kemper directly, you'd likely come to the same conclusion I have, which is that the models in the Axe are actually superior to the KPA's amp section. Why do I say that? Do you recall any of the threads on this forum pertaining to certain discrepancies some users have complained about regarding differences between some Kemper profiles and the reference amps they're based on? For instance, the artifacts and rasp in the high end, as well as some added compression that profiling seems to induce? Those characteristics are non-existent in the Axe's models. As mentioned, using an IR captured from the KPA's cab section allowed me to perfectly reproduce Kemper profiles when using amp models that are the equivalent of the amps used in those profiles. I'd bet you can't distinguish between them. The point is, there's no way that would be possible if the Axe's amp models were inferior to the KPA's amp section. The reason why the Axe might sound harsh has everything to do with cab selection, and this is one area where I think the Kemper excels. The KPA has excellent cabs. Certainly they're superior to any of the stock cabs I've used in any other modeler, no question, and that's where most of the KPA's sonic magic comes from, in my opinion.

Quote from nightlight

Can we please stay on topic and discuss the unit rather than people's subjective opinion about whether it's crap or not?

It is really not helpful when X says that I know tone because blah blah and then Y says you're wrong, I know tone because blah blah.

For Pete's sake, does every thread about a competing device, FX, or whatever have to descend into these kinds of flame wars?

Perhaps I can suggest that mods like the kind @DonPetersen enforce the guidelines they stated so kindly earlier and start busting people for going off topic.

A lot of us just want to read more about the device and hear from some of our users who might happen to try one. The forums are a great place for that because not all of us spend hours everyday typing Axe FX in Google to see who publishes what.

The current discussion only tells me that X likes his Kemper very much, while Y has an Axe FX and thinks it can really sound good and then Z posts something that's 2,000 words long to justify his opinion that the Axe sucks.

Fanboyism is perfectly fine, guys. Just try not to make it so evident that the debate becomes a pissing contest.

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The only people who've tried one are beta testers, most of which are hanging out on the TGP forums in the Axe FX III thread. I'm sure at least some of them have tried a Kemper, but it's doubtful any of them will show up here. So, if you want to hear from people who've actually tried an Axe FX III, check out that thread.

Quote from yngwierhoadsvaivaughan

I actually think a POD Bean by line 6 sounds better than the Axe FX 2. Proof here.

Good luck finding a POD bean example that sounds like this: