Fractal Axe Fx 3

  • Some seem to be fascinated with D*icks and C*ocks and they see them everywhere, not that there's anything wrong with that :D but that's not what the discussion here is about. :)


    This is about the AXE FXIII.


    1-I have shown beyond doubt to anyone who can read and comprehend English that Fractal is fascinated with "Profling" because they understand very well how accurate it is, so they resort to using profiling in deceptive marketing.to insinuate that their products actually utilize Profling. Cliff , Fractal CEO, stated "The Axe-Fx II with V6 uses a hybrid modeling/profiling approach"


    2-In their deceptive marketing they falsely claim that EQ Matching (utilized in their Flagship products) is the same as profiling. (99% of it :D )
    According to Cliff, Fractal CEO, "profiling" is 99% EQ matching which is the same thing as Tone Matching."

    You might wonder why is this knowledge significant. The answer is because it makes it irrelevant to who, among us or anyone using amp simulation, should think which is the more accurate technology. This is not about me stating that I think Kemper is more advance and more accurate, sounds better, etc.


    This Clearly indicates that Fractal, themselves, clearly understand and know that Profiling is more accurate so they incorporate it in their marketing. This is no different than when a company states that they use a specific technology to make their product more marketable. When a plugin maker states that they use "convolution" as well as "algorithmic" in their reverb plugins. So Fractal also uses "Profiling" LOL in their products.


    If I were Kemper I would be in a way flattered that Fractal is claiming that they use "Profiling" as defined by Kemper (not secret service and intelligence agencies profiling) but it's also unethical and constitutes lying, some of us however don't like to be lied to or about because it's insulting to our intelligence if we did care about that.


    So guys, thank you so much for creating this thread about the upcoming AXE FX III :) and since nothing new in how modeling will be executed, it's safe to say that Fractal and its hardcore fans will still pay homage to Kemper products by never unequivocally stating that, if honest truth was to be told, the words "Profiling" and " tone (EQ) Matching" should never ever be confused in one sentence to insinuate any similarities much less 99%. :thumbsup:

  • After everywhere this discussion has gone, Dean's argument has been reduced to a quote of "99%" on a forum and whether Cliff meant it literally, exaggerated, or tried to mislead people. None of which is truly germane. Meanwhile the incredible tones Axe-Fx produces and reproduces of amps and profiles that are scattered on the web have been ignored and critiques of the Axe-Fx3 are based solely on cherry-picked assumptions and grasping straws. The creepy cult-like, emotionally impulsive need to overshadow everything un-Kemper has corrupted this forum and that's too bad. Would have liked to see more honest conversation about specs than pissing contests.

  • @ColdFrixion I was reading at TGP and it appears that you like to use your Kemper as the amp part of your tone and the Axe for the FX, right? There has to be a good reason for that...

    Absolutely. Combining the KPA's profiles with the Axe's effects makes for an excellent combination. I've also discussed my great affection for using the cab section of the KPA in tandem with the Axe's amp models and effects. About the only combination I'm not partial to is the KPA's amp section with the Axe FX's cabs.

  • The creepy cult-like, emotionally impulsive need to overshadow everything un-Kemper has corrupted this forum and that's too bad. Would have liked to see more honest conversation about specs than pissing contests.

    Well really, you can go to any product forum (not just music gear) and see the cheerleader fan-boi's. ;-) It's totally fine, everyone likes to talk up their fav gear and some bemoaning the rest, its no different than a bunch of guys talking cars and engines.


    At the end of the day, its like I said, diff ears, hands, guitars, strings, pickups, speakers, etc, etc... opinion. On the psychology side, you can see how some will go to any length to stay on the upper hand of opinion, which does speak volumes. ;-)


    Agree to disagree after 5 posts! :-0

  • For God's sake, just chill out. It's getting silly when you argue back and forth over 10 pages and neither is willing to give any ground.

    In all honesty, I've conceded that I think both units are great but neither are perfect. I've also conceded stuff like having to re-tweak presets in the Axe FX after an update can be a pain in the ass. I mean, about the only thing I won't concede to are is something that I don't really have evidence for.

  • Well really, you can go to any product forum (not just music gear) and see the cheerleader fan-boi's. ;-) It's totally fine, everyone likes to talk up their fav gear and some bemoaning the rest, its no different than a bunch of guys talking cars and engines....

    Completely different Nemo, sure there are some fan club mentality in various companies websites, but you have to admit that the hard core Fractal fans are like no others ^^ .


    Collectiveamnesia just signed on to this forum because he feels the need to defend his product of choice on the competition forum 8o . Sure I'am a fan of the Kemper, but you won't see me signing on to Fractal website forum, so who's "Creepy cult-like :S "?


    Aren't those creepy who lie openly about their products utilizing profiling and falsifying scientific facts claiming a 20 year old EQ match, is 99% of the profiling process. That's creepy, when a highly skilled electrical engineer lies about a product he knows no more about thatnany other intelligent engineer., It's that arrogance based on the AXE Fx Being for s short period considered amazing by hype and false advertisement, that make some believe that Cliff is so smart that he must know how the profiling works. If he did, he wouldn't resort to lying. Makes sense?


    Do you see the engineer in Line 6 talking about Kemper profiling like he knows it,? you don't, because Line 6 is a real classy professional company that leaves the engineer doing what he does best, and it's not marketing and lying about other products.


    Its most creepy, however, to sign on to the public forum of a product that you don't own and don't use to blindly attack users of this other product that you know little about except for the false disinformation of Fractal.equating EQ match with profiling. <3 These guys are freaking amazing, it must be something in that sweet fractal Kool -aid LOL :D Seriously think about it.


    Come on, let us all have a sense of humor, so I said the AXE FX is not as accurate as Kemper, what's the big deal, it's not like I'm the only one who said that, almost everyone who bought the Kemper instead of the AXE is convinced of this, very few who bought the Kemper have never heard of the AXE before they bought their Kemper, don't you guys think., I'm one of the few tongue and cheek guys who will tell it like it is, because, I honestly can't advice a friend or anyone, to go for fractal when I know that Kemper does amp simulations better.


    AXE FX III is much of the same and I haven't seen anything in the specs or the clips so far that promises better amp modeling.

  • With all due respect, if you can't resolve a dispute after 5 posts you move on. Obviously you and your opponent will not budge in debate and unless there is some new 3rd party involved, etc., otherwise you are in a non-ending stalemate. All who read can then choose who they see in the right or wrong. Agree to disagree is the typical out. There is no way either of you can win the debate you've chosen so why bother. I could make a video where the Kemper sounds better. I could equally make a video where the AFX sounds better. Tone is personal, so you are not convincing anyone else really. Application is more interesting.

  • Actually do own a Kemper and not an Axe-FX. Regardless of the circumstance for my participating in this thread, that doesn't negate any post I've made as untruthful. Those you are left to still contend by their own merits. Instead you've receded into this bizarre face-saving rant about Cliff's "99%" quote and questioning my motives after questioning Coldfrixons. I must say I applaud Coldfrixons ability to stay on topic and not participate in the mud slinging thrown at him. It's entirely possible that as a Kemper owner I've grown a tad weary of seeing you and a few other users here overtake what should be constructive threads with arguments constructed on falsities. Or you can just assume you know what my motivations are since it helps the straw man you've constructed.


    I'm one of the few tongue and cheek guys who will tell it like it is

    In my time watching the forum, you profess yourself to be many things yet seldom actually behave in that manner. We all wish to see ourselves in a certain light but ultimately your track record speaks for itself despite your self-endorsements.


    But if you tell it like it is, nobody is stopping you from going back and responding to the other Axe videos and Coldfrixon's clips, as you've been encouraged to do during your unrelated Cliff rant. Or you can continue to dance yourself into a corner with Cliff's forum post and covering your ears.

  • This Clearly indicates that Fractal, themselves, clearly understand and know that Profiling is more accurate so they incorporate it in their marketing.

    If FAS actually were incorporating 'Profiling' in their marketing, then you should have no trouble finding numerous posts from end users (ie. not Cliff) who've interpreted their marketing that way and believe the Axe FX is also a profiler. In all of the posts I've perused from end users asking about the differences between Tone Matching and Profiling or the KPA and Axe FX, I've never once seen anyone suggest they're based on the same technology. Can you find even one post on TGP from end users who claim they are? Just one. If not, it's a bit like accusing a company of putting poison in their product and yet you can't find a single person who's been poisoned. If what you're saying is true, then you should be able to cite numerous posts. Where are all the "unsuspecting customers" who've been fooled?

  • Actually do own a Kemper and not an Axe-FX. Regardless of the circumstance for my participating in this thread,..

    Looking at your profile, you're a member since February 4, 2018 , all your posts are in this thread only, you say you own a kemper but haven't registered yet, I'm really curious, Care to explain as I jope you understand my confusion as to why you never posted before or registered your Kemper, but you found it incumbent upon yourself to post in a thread about the AXE FX only, I'm all ears :)
    Thank you!!

  • Regardless of how the KPA sounds, it is time for a hardware update. No where else would someone defend an aging piece of technology. None of you would buy a computer that was more than five years old and pay full price. When you buy a new computer you want the fastest cpu and memory you can afford. The KPA needs more memory for profile storage and more I/O ports for routing flexibility. The Axe-fx III is an attempt to address advancing technology, similar to the Helix. As great as the KPA sounds, the hardware R&D is old. I trust that notwithstanding Kemper’s failure to even announce something new at NAMM that Kemper is spending funds on R&D for a modern KPA, instead of trying to find parts and memory for an aging device. At some point recognition has to be given to modern tech. And for those that believe that the KPA cannot be improved, ask anybody whether their Windows Vista computer is state of the art.

  • If Fractal really thought for one second (even through allowing a moderators comment to stand for 5 years) that TONE = EQ = PROFILE (100% for clean, 99% for distortion),
    then Cliff wouldn't have said:


    (A) that he can see the tell-tale signs of an IR in the encrypted Kemper profile's file, nor


    (B) would he put up the current advertisement for AXE FXIII that Quantum = Tone Matching + IR in order to cop the tone of an amp's setting.


    (the assumption here is that an amp model is in the mix for both processes, so that also kills the 99-100% correctness of either case.)


    You need something equivalent to an IR in either case. So EQ Matching can never be 100% of a clean tone. That's BS. Cliff knows it. Stated it. Yet the forum lets an official's statement stand uncorrected for all time. Maybe they should do some redacting?

  • Regardless of how the KPA sounds, it is time for a hardware update. No where else would someone defend an aging piece of technology. None of you would buy a computer that was more than five years old and pay full price. When you buy a new computer you want the fastest cpu and memory you can afford. The KPA needs more memory for profile storage and more I/O ports for routing flexibility. The Axe-fx III is an attempt to address advancing technology, similar to the Helix. As great as the KPA sounds, the hardware R&D is old. I trust that notwithstanding Kemper’s failure to even announce something new at NAMM that Kemper is spending funds on R&D for a modern KPA, instead of trying to find parts and memory for an aging device. At some point recognition has to be given to modern tech. And for those that believe that the KPA cannot be improved, ask anybody whether their Windows Vista computer is state of the art.

    You must be new, welcome to the forum!


    There is a whole folder of threads dedicated to this subject. In fact, I've a mind to start a thread about this subject. It's a grand one that requires it's own thread (again, again)

  • Looking at your profile, you're a member since February 4, 2018 , all your posts are in this thread only, you say you own a kemper but haven't registered yet, I'm really curious, Care to explain as I jope you understand my confusion as to why you never posted before or registered your Kemper, except to defend Fractal I'm all ears :) Thank you!!

    As stated, someone who has long looked utilized the forum for information, tips, and profiles. But I understand the reason you bothered looking into this is to try and undercut my credibility because you've since avoided the actual topic at hand despite repeated invitations to. I'm under no requirement to register my Kemper for this profile, and perhaps it's already registered to a different email. Regardless, this is nothing more than diverting from the real substance which you have shown disinterested in addressing. If I were just an Axe troll as you wish me to be I think that would be apparent. I've yet to say a negative thing about the Kemper, and I don't need because it works great for me, but that doesn't at all mean I won't point out cherry-picked, emotionally impulsive rhetoric where it presents itself, be it here or anywhere for that matter. It's a sad commentary on matters when a member responding to a thread is accused of being some wolf in sheeps clothing for plainly advocating balanced honesty. It's not the first or last time that's happened on this forum.


    Modeling isn't a zero sum game, as was written earlier. It is possible for Kemper and Axe to coexist in the same universe and both serve a functional purpose. It is possible for me to be happy with my Kemper and be honest about competitors that offer a different set of benefits along with shortcomings.


    Speaking of which, here is a pretty good mid gain tone and tone match by a guy who knows his stuff. Amp is also harsher than the Axe, go figure.


  • (B) would he put up the current advertisement for AXE FXIII that Quantum = Tone Matching + IR in order to cop the tone of an amp's setting.

    Cliff recommends bypassing the Cab block when Tone Matching. When finished, the Cab block is deleted and the Tone Match block becomes the IR. But yes, undoubtedly amp models are a major component of the tone by and large.

  • Just an interesting aside. I was comparing the Slate VMS (microphone modeling system) to a U47 clone I had (WA-47) which I know isn't an exact Neumann, but I had one by accident and was just doing it to comparing it to the FG-47 in the VMS system for a giggle.


    My VOX take had a very grating OW vowel that the WA-47 picked up.
    The RAW non-emulated VMS mic (called the ML-1) was smooth and nice. Good neutral mic.


    BUT.. . when I pressed the button to hit the FG-47 emulation on the ML-1 mic? Smoothness gone, in it's place that very same grating OW of the WA-47!


    Sooo, my point is, a good profile (or Quantum ToneMatch+IR) should in theory also emulate the good AND the bad equally accurately.


    When i profiled my amps, the ones that didn't sound good with certain guitars (Ie Parker PM20 Pro -> Fender 65 RI) had the same yuck sound with the Fender 65 when profiled.
    Now THAT is authentic (and useful in determining from Profiles what amps you might love to own for your favorite guitars!)


    For Commercial Profiles on this forum that used iZotope Tone Matching of famous recordings, they did NOT sound different on different guitars like the profile of the actual amp used in those recordings when I toyed with them. Huge difference. Tone Matching gets you into the ballpark. Profiling IS the ballpark.


    I assume Quantum is more capable of realism that this video suggests, so I chalk this down to a learning curve that most amazing guitarist has yet to get down. Love me some Thorn!