Kemper Tips and Tricks - Gain Control

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    It would be super cool, if we could pause the profiling process, change the amp gain, then restart the profiling process. Maybe have multiple snapshots at different amp gain settings for each profile.

    Brilliant HW, a lot my rigs sounded better after i knocked the gain off, some sound "ok" when i did put up the gain, but only by 2-3 and not ten. We may have some head room with 2-3 for some rigs, but what i really enjoyed was how you said the amp responds to your picking hand, this is tone in your fingers and should end the debate :D


    Ash

    Have a beer and don't sneer. -CJ. Two non powered Kempers -Two mission stereo FRFR Cabs - Ditto X4 -TC electronic Mimiq.

    Like 2
    Quote from DonPetersen

    The Profilers Gain control is completely transparent, this way you can set the amp at it's sweet spot, make a Profile and than change the gain of the Profile and enjoy the amp's sweet spot at any gain setting.


    Hi Don,


    You may be saying the same thing H.W. says in his subject video, but in a different way. If when you say to set any given tube amp at it"s "sweet spot", I am understanding that to mean it is pushed, and already is distorting to some degree (even a clean amp). That way, you can always dial back on the resulting profile's gain setting, and it reacts pretty transparently.


    However, H.W.'s results were pretty clear and convincing, when he profiled a completely clean amp (no noticeable breakup or distortion), and then tried to recreate that amp's higher gain characteristics by using the Gain on the profiler. The sounds were not even close.


    Look, as far as I am concerned, that is in no way drawback to the KPA and the brilliant profiling process...as the obvious solution (of course) is to capture multiple profiles of your amp at various gain settings.


    If I have misunderstood your post and explanation, than I apologize, and perhaps you might clarify or expand on your explanation.


    Cheers,
    John

    A tube amps gain control, besides controlling the amount of distortion, also colors the signal. It almost becomes an extra EQ.
    An amp's sweet spots can be described where the EQ from the gain and the setting of the main EQ coincide to produce the most musical or pleasing results. (the sweet spots themselves are somewhat subjective)


    With the Profiler you can acquire these sweet spots and expand their gain range to better suit your tastes or guitar, because of the transparency of it's gain control.
    This is a powerful and unique feature that is shown here in an unnecessarily negative light - when it really should be more exploited IMHO.

    I'm sorry this is being perceived as me being negative on the Kemper. I am a Kemper super fan. There is nothing about the Kemper I don't love! My only intent here is to show people how to get the most out of their Kemper. In the video I explain that the reason you can't turn a profilers gain knob up to 10 on a profile of an amp set super clean is because of the way tubes distort. I explain that the character of the breakup changes as you push a tube so the break up you get from an amp on 3 is different than that of an amp on 10. I think that's what you are saying too, Don, when you mention the gain knob changing an amps EQ. I 100% agree with that!




    Like I said in the video the Kemper is an amazing piece of gear that can accurately and genuinely recreate the character of the best tube amps we all love. My only intent here was to show that bad tactics and not understanding that the Kemper is not a Modeler can lead to bad results. Maybe this isn't a lesson that people of this forum struggle with but, I'm part of a smaller private Kemper FB group and I see people describing this all the time. They grab a clean profile they like and start cranking the gain knob and because it was a super clean amp that was profiled the characteristic of the distortion doesn't sound "right" to them.




    Kemper 4 Life!

    I think HW is bang on the money here and agree wholeheartedly. Doesn't mean to say you can't however push the gain upwards - if you carve out a great sound doing that then it's still great sound.. I don't tend to however myself.


    Thanks for posting this.


    Regards,


    Simon

    Agreed, you can definitely push the gain upwards, my example was very extreme maybe too extreme.

    Without wanting to enter into an academic discussion, it is also my empirical experience that I achieve better results for myself by reducing the gain of a more distorted profile than by adding a gain to a less distorted profile.
    However, I might add that I usually change gain in connection with definition. Also I try to find profiles which does not need so much tweaking to meet my expectations.


    However - thanks Jonathan for sharing your Vid. :thumbup:

    And just to point out something else which is sort of obvious but worth making..


    HW is simply demonstrating that the KPA profiling process allows is it to provide a much better representation of how the 'real' amp sounds when the gain is reduced than the other way around. This has no direct correlation with whether it sounds 'good' or not! That's in the eye (ear!) of the beholder..


    I sense too much Kemper defending in these forums sometimes..


    Si

    Quote from grappagreen

    And just to point out something else which is sort of obvious but worth making..


    HW is simply demonstrating that the KPA profiling process allows is it to provide a much better representation of how the 'real' amp sounds when the gain is reduced than the other way around. This has no direct correlation with whether it sounds 'good' or not! That's in the eye (ear!) of the beholder..


    I sense too much Kemper defending in these forums sometimes..

    actually the same thing happens when turning down the gain, since he comes from a distorting Profile, it has fewer high frequencies and so the cleaned up version sounds fatter, has more mids/less highs when compared to the Profile of the clean amp.


    The Profiler's gain control is tonally transparent, which is a blessing to e.g. pro session guitarists since it allows the gain to be varied without altering the overall tone.
    (ab)using this by moving the gain control very, very far and only showing this doesn't seem to be a balanced way to inform users about the Profiler and it's possibilities.

    I don't want to form the defence council for HW but feel someone needs to;


    HW stated that the profiling process appears to produce more accurate amp sounds (in comparison to the real amp) when reducing rather than adding gain and demonstrated this process in the clip.
    HW did not state at any point that anything sounded 'bad' - just that the difference between a dirty amp cleaned up is far less than a clean amp dirtied up with the gain control
    HW also stated that turning the gain up a couple of clicks is OK but that the further you increase gain the greater the difference between the KPA profile sound and the real amp at a similar gain level
    HW also stated that profilers tend to produce lots of profiles at different gains so that we can choose the most appropriate gain levels without having to resort to adjusting gain necessarily.


    Nobody is suggesting that the gain control is not tonally transparent - just that when using a Kemper increases of gain will produce a greater disparity between the real amp and the sound emanating from the KPA. This is probably to be expected as this is a profiler and not a modeller.


    In the spirit of democracy I suggest a vote to anyone who fancies it. You can only pick one;


    1. The KPA produces a more accurate representation of the real amp when gain is reduced
    2. The KPA produces a more accurate representation of the real amp when gain is increased


    By the way I have spent thousands of pounds on my KPA, Remote & carrying cases. I use it exclusively for gigs and my thousands of pounds (weight and value!) of valve amps are there as keepsakes and reminders of what the world before my KPA was like. It's utterly brilliant and I tell everyone that and have demo'd it to loads of people, all who think it's amazing and some who will purchase.


    I just take issue with the fact that a demonstration of what some may perceive as a weakness (I don't consider it one) is responded to in this dismissive way


    By the way my vote is for 1.


    Regards,


    Si

    this is getting a bit out of hand.


    A user made a video about the Profiler - great
    I pointed out that what he pictures as a weakness can and has indeed been used to create wonderful Profiles.


    It's just a matter of perspective.
    I prefer to focus on the strengths of a device - and that has btw. nothing to do with my involvement with Kemper.
    I felt and argued very similar points about other musical gear ranging from preamps, effects to synths over the years.


    ;)


    it's all good.

    This goes to my perception of the profileing process having more to do with sampling and the modeller more to do with synthesis. Accurate sample instruments are mapped across different velocities as timbre changes with velocity, on the KPA, I think of this as gain changes. My solution would be to map various gain stages of an amp actoss a performance rather than change the gain on the KPA. As a disclaimer, I have no idea what the science of the profiling process is, this is just my perception. By the way, H.W. I’m a big fan of the videos.

    A brace of Suhrs, a Charvel, a toaster, an Apollo twin, a Mac, and a DXR10

    Thanks, HW. This echoes my personal feelings too. I typically take a rig whose profile is done with some gain, reduce the gain to create a cleaner version, then use morphing to bring it back to where it was originally profiled.

    Go for it now. The future is promised to no one. - Wayne Dyer

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