Direct Profile sounds like speakers that are about to explode

  • Hey Tim, do you mean to get a cable that is XLR at one end, and quarter inch jack at the other end? Have you found more success doing it (Direct profiles) this way?
    I have been just using a regular microphone cable XLR at both ends… The other question… I have been using a 20 foot XLR cable, is it better (sonically) to use a much shorter cable? Or does it make any difference…

    Yes, I've had problems making direct profiles using the XLR return. I happened to have an XLR to 1/4" TRS cable on hand so I gave it a try and it fixed my problem. Personally, I don't think the length of the cable is a big deal, at least in this application.

  • i'm just using a standard mic cable...what would the difference be, or were you just checking to make sure there wasn't an actual issue with my Kemper?

    The XLR input has a mic preamp so it is very sensitive, the 1/4" is a line level input so it can handle a much higher level. In my case I was over driving the XLR input causing distortion and when I switched to the 1/4" it fixed my problem. Hope that helps.

  • Thanks Tim, about every 10th direct profile I try, I encountered the same problem Chris has experienced in this thread… I will pick up an XLR / 1/4” TRS 1/4” this afternoon and try it...
    :thumbup:

  • Tim, when you say it was distorting, were you getting a message on the K PA telling you that the signal is too hot?

    No, but I knew there was a problem when I couldn't make a clean profile, every time I tried to make a clean profile it came out distorted. Then when I switched to the 1/4" the clean profiles came out clean as they should.


    That might be a good way to test this idea with your setup, see if you can make a clean profile. When you select clean amp during the profiling process if the Kemper detects distortion it will tell you that you just profiled a distorted amp after the profiling process, that what it was doing to me, and when I played the profile it was indeed distorted (yet the amp was perfectly clean).

  • OK…
    I have tried it and I got the best direct profile so far.
    Interesting, it automatically set my DIST sens at -.5…?!
    Looks like I will be using XLR // 1/4” TRS input all the time now, No more microphone cables.
    I also tried a clean profile which came out pristine…
    Have you guys ever had your dist sens ‘automatically calibrate’ while profiling?
    I have never had it happened using XLR/XLR, this is the first time…
    Thank you so much Tim, I got more clarity and nice full body in the few profiles that I’ve just done :thumbup:

  • Very cool, thanks for the update, glad to hear it.

  • I would like to provide some info regarding this topic.
    There is no difference between the XLR return and the TS Return input in terms of input sensitivity. The only difference is that the XLR is balanced and the TS is not.
    The actual level of the return signal is determined by the return level parameter in the profiling menu.
    This parameter works exactly the same for both inputs.
    If you experience a difference in the level between both inputs it is probably caused by the fact that you use a XLR to TS cable which results in a balanced signal being converted into an unbalanced signal causing a drop in level by 6 dB.
    If you experienced distortion while using the XLR input you should turn down the return level parameter or reduce the level coming from the external amp.
    The parameters in the input menu are not „automatically calibrated" by the profiling process. If the distorted sens appears to be at -5 dB it must have been set to that level in the rig that was loaded before you entered the Profiling process and the input section was unlocked.
    The Kemper DI box is exclusively available in our online store.

  • Thank you for the official reply. I do have a couple of questions.


    It sounds like you are saying that the 1/4" return is unbalance, but the manual says "The RETURN input is available as balanced TRS or XLR input". Can you clarify if the 1/4" is balanced (TRS) or unbalanced (TS)?


    In an older manual it says
    "Return and Alternative Input (4)
    Use these inputs to connect the output of external equipment with your Kemper Profiler. Their main use is for profiling - use either input as the return from the reference amp. Use the quarter-inch input to take a line-level signal from a digital amp, speaker simulation or subgroup of a mixing desk. Use the XLR input as appropriate, for instance with a microphone. Please note that the Kemper Profiler’s XLR input does not provide phantom power".
    This would seem to indicate that the XLR is mic level and the 1/4" is line level. Is this an error in the manual or maybe I'm not reading it correctly?


    Is it possible that the XLR return is damaged on my unit while the 1/4" is not? I ask because when I had this problem switching to the 1/4" definitely fixed the issue. That was a long time ago, maybe I should do some more testing to verify?


    Thank you.

  • You are right-my bad-sorry about that. The return input is actually TRS and therefore balanced like the XLR. Both are sharing the same circuity though and there is no difference regarding their input sensitivity. The level of the return signal is controlled by the return level parameter for both inputs. I can see how one could interprete the wording in the manual to believe that one was exclusively for line signals and the other for microphones but it was confirmed by our tech team that there is no difference between the TRS and the XLR return.
    The Profiler automatically adjusts the Return level parameter after the first profiling attempt.
    Have you tried to profile through the XLR multiple times or did you switch to the TRS input immediately after the first failed attempt? In that case the automatically adjusted return level parameter was probably the reason why the second attempt resulted in a better profile.

  • When i had the issue on this post (with the Power Station 2's reactive load) i did make multiple attempts to capture it so that must not be the issue i had, the Kemper just doesn't see the reactive load properly i guess. I have yet to have time to investigate my current issues with the DI box i got (not the Kemper one)...which was feedback on high gain amps...even with no guitar plugged in and the cocked wah tone on the mid gain tone.


    When i change the return input there seemed to be no perceived volume change when changing it...is that normal on DI profiles or did i possibly have something set wrong?

  • You are right-my bad-sorry about that. The return input is actually TRS and therefore balanced like the XLR. Both are sharing the same circuity though and there is no difference regarding their input sensitivity. The level of the return signal is controlled by the return level parameter for both inputs. I can see how one could interprete the wording in the manual to believe that one was exclusively for line signals and the other for microphones but it was confirmed by our tech team that there is no difference between the TRS and the XLR return.
    The Profiler automatically adjusts the Return level parameter after the first profiling attempt.
    Have you tried to profile through the XLR multiple times or did you switch to the TRS input immediately after the first failed attempt? In that case the automatically adjusted return level parameter was probably the reason why the second attempt resulted in a better profile.

    Thank you for the quick reply. It's been a long time since I had this issue and I've been using the 1/4" ever since, I would need to try and duplicate it again to refresh my memory, it just made sense to me that using the 1/4" would have fixed my problem based on what the manual says but now that doesn't seem to be the case so I'm not really sure what was happening back then.

  • HJ,
    You are right about the DIST SENS...
    I was in browser mode trying out someone else’s profile before I profiled the amplifier last night, their profile was -.5 DB… The only reason why it startled me is because I never change my DIST sens from zero…
    But, I still say that the profiles sound better, noticeably using the XLR/ 1/4” TRS. Probably because of some of the reasons you suggested, but I don’t understand why there have to be so many variables that can be left to user error, when we are doing a profile, we should be able to hit a chord or play a little bit, then that profile will be set up properly to take the right signal level… No?

  • you need to adjust the return level manually to get it right the first time. If the user fails to do that the Profiler will adjust the return level automatically for the next try

    yes!!! Ok, So, this is why my second profile always sounds better than the first I did ( exact same settings) because the KPA is adjusting for the second one… This is good information!