Kemper 2 expectations

  • I love how intuitive the kemper is , all makes sense , at first you think "what the hell with all these knobs" , but it's easier then it looks , morphing easy-peasy dial in low value , dial in high value , push store :)


    The only thing that "bothers" me is the endless list of FX you need to scroll trhough until you reach the one you want , but to be honest once my rigs were setup , didn't need those anymore :)


    Now I just plug and play , I only need to find the time to try different cabs :)


    OOh and maybe a global EQ in the output section would be nice as well as the freqout effect :)


    OOh and I would love kemper to come out with their own FRFR cabs as well


    OOh and an editor would be nice to have to play around more , but that's just playing around with parameters I now don't touch !


    Raf


    PS : how we can't be happy with the best piece of gear that hasn't been surpassed for years and we still have the latest version :O

    Kemper stage with 2 mission pedals (in a Thon line 6 FBV case) and a Zilla 212 (K-100/V30) , SD powerstage 700 poweramp

  • The only reason I responded to this is because I do care about the direction of the product. The core and fundamentals in approach is what I bought into.


    Personally ( and I know this is about market pressures etc) I want continued focus on improving the algorithms and profiling accuracy, better effects and a good editor ( totally agree with that) etc, not led screens and complex routing which ( and I know I'll get shot down for this) because Axe or Line 6 are doing it. Its a point of direction, not that I do not want improvements.


    Just so you all know, I'm no luddite, shunning tech, I'm an IT manager, and I see all sorts of tech for the sake of tech hence I'm genuinely interest ed in why people what some of this stuff as it doesn;t feature in my world of pub gigs and small festivals.


    So its not that I wouldn't want a KPA2 or improvements made, but I would hate it to detract from the core product and investment in the direction I would like.


    Dual profiles as an example, yeah i can see a possible application, but its not fundamental. Very few live guitarists blend 2 amps, yes I know some do, but really not that many. most dual rigs are to switch between sounds, although I know a few do blend. But then I also run mono rather than stereo, so maybe I'm just too far behind the curve :).


    Another thread talked about basic sound via a cab being "not quite there" or not having the feel of a valve amp...even though I don;t see that too much myself, I'd rather further investigation into this type of thing than niche things that even collectively drive new hardware. If people are keen to shell out on new hardware good on ya, I'd rather incremental improvements to my existing KPA.


    That is just my view. I will shut up now :)

  • To be honest imo if you’re hankering after features that are available in another product eg Helix etc then maybe that’s the product you should get instead of requesting a kpa2.


    At the end of the day we choose products because if the feature sets we want / need and that’s fine. Things like a floor board version just arent ‘needed’ again, my opinion of course. If using a midi board of some type isn’t good enough then get the helix or something else which is better suited to your needs.


    The kpa is first and foremost an amp ‘simulator’ not a multi fx unit with amp blocks. Ok I’ll amend that - for me and my uses.

  • @Netheravon



    Quote

    Things like a floor board version just arent ‘needed’ again, my opinion of course.


    I agree with everything you say but I would love to have a floor-tool for jams,small coffeehouse gigs and rehearsals..where I live finding a place to park your car is an act of war :/ ,no matter if day or night..I just would love to take my guitar and a bag to take the subway or the bus,this would indeed save me a lot of taxi-money...just dreamin´..


    A floorboard-model of the kpa is indeed something I would not recommend as idea but maybe there are also other ways to achieve great things.A remote-style "profile player"(including smartphone app for tweaking main parameters) only available for kpa-owners for example would be indeed a great thing in my eyes.

  • So its not that I wouldn't want a KPA2 or improvements made, but I would hate it to detract from the core product and investment in the direction I would like.


    How would things like dual profiles, an editor, more simultaneous effects or improved routing detract from the core product? Did the morphing feature detract from it? I don't see how any of the suggested features would do anything but add value. The core functionality wouldn't change. Users who don't need or want those features don't have to use them.


    Dual profiles as an example, yeah i can see a possible application, but its not fundamental. Very few live guitarists blend 2 amps, yes I know some do, but really not that many. most dual rigs are to switch between sounds, although I know a few do blend. But then I also run mono rather than stereo, so maybe I'm just too far behind the curve.


    Okay, and what makes you think your standard of fundamental is universal? Not everyone plays live, or at least not exclusively. A lot of users use dual amps and cabs when recording. At the very least, a vast number of users who own a competing modeler use dual cabs, so I wouldn't really consider it a niche feature per se.


    Another thread talked about basic sound via a cab being "not quite there" or not having the feel of a valve amp...even though I don;t see that too much myself, I'd rather further investigation into this type of thing than niche things that even collectively drive new hardware. If people are keen to shell out on new hardware good on ya, I'd rather incremental improvements to my existing KPA.


    I'm not sure what sort of improvements you're referring to specifically, however Christoph stated at this year's NAMM that he didn't feel the profiling process (which includes cab capture) could be improved, so unfortunately that may well be a dead-end. While I'm basically content with the KPA, I can definitely see areas where value could be added, but it stands to reason that some features simply aren't possible with the current hardware.

  • Quote

    How would things like dual profiles, an editor, more simultaneous effects or improved routing detract from the core product?


    You dont know how much work hours & manpower things like this would need,do you;


    You have here a small company and not a industry giant with endless capacity and financial means.


    What some people here are trying to say is that they are quite happy with the things got done till yet.This is not "fanboyism" but just the feel to have a really serious & well thought tool in your hands.

  • You dont know how much work hours & manpower things like this would need,do you;


    You have here a small company and not a industry giant with endless capacity and financial means.


    What some people here are trying to say is that they are quite happy with the things got done till yet.This is not "fanboyism" but just the feel to have a really serious & well thought tool in your hands.

    Well, define "core product", and explain how any of the aforementioned features would take away (ie. detract) from it. If you're talking about detracting from development of the core product, well, that's a different claim altogether. Do you consider Morphing and Rig Manager any more a core product feature than dual profiles or an editor? If so, why?


    That said, Fractal Audio isn't exactly an industry giant with unlimited financial capacity, but they tend to provide updates with new features in a very timely fashion.


    As has already been mentioned, anyone who's happy with their unit as is can keep right on using their unit exactly as they have been.

  • That is just my view. I will shut up now

    You don't really have to shut up, if you do, I'll shut with you. ^^


    I started my 3rd year with the KPA and my tone is getting better and better because of the improvements.
    My only problem is sorting out the possibilities and limiting it to the essentials. It's so much fun to fool around, that you forget to practice.


    I don't think I've exhausted the Kemper by a long way and I only would wish better handiness in some aspects.
    No Kemper 2 would be required for this.


    But it is clear that one day there will be even better to follow whether you need it or not.

  • Dear ColdFrixion..


    I will not start the next Fractal/Kemper discussion here,I hope you understand...I will just say that (take a look at this huge "new screen" and the buttons of the AF3) that even these guys over there will not deny that it is all about what each customer needs and "where he comes from" ie tube rig or other digital device..


    Anyway..I would like to ask you a few questions since we talk since months now about the always same things.Maybe it is time to respect (as @Netheravon put it very nicely) that every player has his own needs and it is not the best idea to project our needs into the other players needs;


    So here some questions:


    Do you use a DAW;
    Do you use the plug ins of this DAW;
    How much fx do you need for your live gigs;
    How would dual amp help you during live gigs and jams;


    I guess you understand why I ask you these questions.It is more than clear anyway..


    In real world most (if not all..at least I dont know a single one without) guitar players/musicians have their own means for recording in form of a powerfull pc/mac,a very good DAW,tons of plug ins which grow in numbers and also in quality.Even the "free plug ins" today are so great that you will not need to spend much money on fx-plug ins anymore(and I will not talk about all the available cracked stuff ofcourse)


    I guess we will agree on this.


    Ofcourse you know where I want to go..


    In reality even more fx and more routing and more of things you can do with your computer you will not look for in a standalone device.At least I will not.


    More so since most of the kpa-customers(like me) come from the tube rig world and for sure most of are far beyond of recording with tons of fx.Most of us will use a rather dry tone and add fx later on.


    This for recording.For playing live things are even more complicated.Will we agree at least on these simple facts;


    Tell me please why should a developer reject this basic knowledge;More so since this developer obviously have made his decision of which kind of customer he would like to attract to buy his product;
    Clearly the kpa is the attempt to draw tube guys making the "next step" taking away the traumatic experiences most of us did with "other modelers" and digital simulation of the past.


    I am not looking for specs.Actually most guys like me will not.More fx,more tweaking,more of whatever is maybe not the reason why someone would choose the kpa.


    That being said..like I bought the kpa because its sounds and its tube "feel" are revolutionary I also would get me a Kemper2 if it would be as revolutionary as the 1 in giving me "new tones".May it be really good synth stuff or (as I am dreaming about) the abilty to profile/model any kind of string instrument.Other would for sure wish to be able to profile their pedals..who knows..


    These kind of things I would indeed love to see in a Kemper2.

  • There are 2 camps here


    1 current is great and new version just devalues the old one
    2 The current version is behind the pack in terms of features

    Camp #3 Current version is great and not behind the pack, especially when used with dedicated FX processor when I need tons of exotic effects and complex routing. If there is new version, I'll buy it day one if it's not about bells and whistles like colour screen and some iOS app. If I wanted that I'd buy an iphone ;) I don't give a damn about potential "devaluation" of my "investment" if CK and the team comes up with another level of sorcery, I'll pay for it.


    If someone needs all in one do it all unit with nice color screen to stare at and touch during the gig there is plenty of these available already.


    p.s. Just to give you some context, I used reverb during a gig once, I think it was in 1993.

  • Maybe it is time to respect (as @Netheravon put it very nicely) that every player has his own needs and it is not the best idea to project our needs into the other players needs


    What are you referring to specifically? If suggesting features is akin to projecting, Kemper has an entire section set up on the forum for users to project their needs on to other players. It's called Feature Requests.


    So here some questions:


    Do you use a DAW;
    Do you use the plug ins of this DAW;
    How much fx do you need for your live gigs;
    How would dual amp help you during live gigs and jams;


    Yes, I use a DAW and yes I use plugins, but I don't use plugins (amp sims) for recording dual amps and cabs. I don't play live, so I don't find a foot controller very useful, but I'd never suggest that foot controllers are a niche product just because I don't use them when recording.


    In real world most (if not all..at least I dont know a single one without) guitar players/musicians have their own means for recording in form of a powerfull pc/mac,a very good DAW,tons of plug ins which grow in numbers and also in quality.Even the "free plug ins" today are so great that you will not need to spend much money on fx-plug ins anymore(and I will not talk about all the available cracked stuff ofcourse)


    I use effects plugins, but I don't use software amp sims, namely because I'm not satisfied with the quality of them, otherwise I wouldn't have bought a Kemper and Axe FX for recording.


    Tell me please why should a developer reject this basic knowledge; More so since this developer obviously have made his decision of which kind of customer he would like to attract to buy his product;
    Clearly the kpa is the attempt to draw tube guys making the "next step" taking away the traumatic experiences most of us did with "other modelers" and digital simulation of the past.


    If the developers were committed to insuring the KPA conformed to features only found in tube amps, they wouldn't have released Rig Manager. And reject what basic knowledge? The only similarities between tube amps and the KPA are the knobs on the front of the unit and its tone. That's about it. How many tube amps have LCD screens and allow users to save settings or morph between them? How many have an IR loader or provide access to parameters such as Tube Shape, Tube Bias, Clarity, High Shift, Low Shift, Clean Sense, Distortion Sense, etc.? The list goes on and on. Built-in multi-effects? Effects presets? Interface with a computer to load rigs? And then there's the profiling technology itself, which is completely foreign to tube amps. How many tube amps are able to clone the sound of practically any amp at the push of a button?


    I am not looking for specs.Actually most guys like me will not.More fx,more tweaking,more of whatever is maybe not the reason why someone would choose the kpa.


    In my opinion, the primary reason people buy the KPA is because it sounds great. If it weren't for that, do you honestly think the KPA would be considered a premium product? Yes, a lot of people like the KPA's plug and playability and the fact it requires very little tweaking, but if it didn't sound as authentic as it does, would that really amount to much? It'd just be another modeler, in my opinion.

  • To be honest imo if you’re hankering after features that are available in another product eg Helix etc then maybe that’s the product you should get instead of requesting a kpa2.


    At the end of the day we choose products because if the feature sets we want / need and that’s fine. Things like a floor board version just arent ‘needed’ again, my opinion of course. If using a midi board of some type isn’t good enough then get the helix or something else which is better suited to your needs.


    The kpa is first and foremost an amp ‘simulator’ not a multi fx unit with amp blocks. Ok I’ll amend that - for me and my uses.


    I do own a Helix, and I was using it live alongside the Kemper. It was the best sounding Rig I've ever had, but it was also defeating the purpose behind my switch to digital in the first place (which was to simplify my setup by bringing less and lighter equipment to gigs). So now I use the Helix live and the Kemper in the studio.


    Even though I miss the amp tones of the Kemper during gigs, it is just much easier for me to bring and set up the Helix than it is to bring the Kemper. Not to mention the features outlined in my first post that the Kemper lacks compared to the competition, which is a big reason why people either switch from the Kemper or simply don't even buy one (I know because I've seen it in other forums). This is why, FOR ME, having both units in one would be ideal. And that's why I would LOVE to see a Kemper 2.

  • Oh, I forgot to mention:


    8 - Audio Interface (I personally don't really need this, but I know a lot of people who would).


    See how that works? It's called not being selfish ;-).

  • Quote

    What are you referring to specifically? If suggesting features is akin to projecting, Kemper has an entire section set up on the forum for users to project their needs on to other players. It's called Feature Requests.

    Right..feature requests..not feature demand.. ^^


    I am sure you know the difference.Others obviously do not.



    Quote

    I use effects plugins, but I don't use software amp sims, namely because I'm not satisfied with the quality of them, otherwise I wouldn't have bought a Kemper and Axe FX for recording.


    Actually I never mentioned amp sim plug ins..ofcourse I talked only about fx-plug ins and how most of us-comming from the tube amp world-used to do our recordings.




    Quote

    If the developers were committed to insuring the KPA conformed to features only found in tube amps, they wouldn't have released Rig Manager. And reject what basic knowledge? The only similarities between tube amps and the KPA are the knobs on the front of the unit and its tone. That's about it. How many tube amps have LCD screens and allow users to save settings or morph between them? How many have an IR loader or provide access to parameters such as Tube Shape, Tube Bias, Clarity, High Shift, Low Shift, Clean Sense, Distortion Sense, etc.? The list goes on and on. Built-in multi-effects? Effects presets? Interface with a computer to load rigs? And then there's the profiling technology itself, which is completely foreign to tube amps. How many tube amps are able to clone the sound of practically any amp at the push of a button?

    Reading all this I come to the conclusion that there is almost no common ground to find a way to communicate.Maybe it is my fault.If so,sorry for that.But I miss from your side the will to understand me.What you say about the rig manager and the Kempers LCD screen and buttons makes no sense at all to me.I never said that the profiler is no digital tool.Did I;



    Quote

    In my opinion, the primary reason people buy the KPA is because it sounds great. If it weren't for that, do you honestly think the KPA would be considered a premium product? Yes, a lot of people like the KPA's plug and playability and the fact it requires very little tweaking, but if it didn't sound as authentic as it does, would that really amount to much? It'd just be another modeler, in my opinion.

    Actually all this what you say above is what I try to say since a long time.I even asked people to go to the homepages of fractal,Line6 and Kemper to take a look what they say in their URL..FRactal Audio systems.com.Line6com..and in our case Kemper AMPS(!!!) com.I would love to keep things simple but obviously this is not possible anymore.


    Anyway..with all due respect dear @ColdFrixion..lets agree to disagree..on the way we communicate..

  • Okay, and what makes you think your standard of fundamental is universal? Not everyone plays live, or at least not exclusively. A lot of users use dual amps and cabs when recording. At the very least, a vast number of users who own a competing modeler use dual cabs, so I wouldn't really consider it a niche feature per se.

    There is an easy solution already for this. Just reamp the signal twice in the studio.


    I guess people used to using and budgeting for 2 amps live, can probably afford 2 Kempers in the same way they had 2 tube amps.

    Karl


    Kemper Rack OS 9.0.5 - Mac OS X 12.6.7

  • Right..feature requests..not feature demand..I am sure you know the difference.Others obviously do not.


    I know the difference, but if you feel I'm not making demands then why mention it in your reply?


    Actually I never mentioned amp sim plug ins..ofcourse I talked only about fx-plug ins and how most of us-comming from the tube amp world-used to do our recordings.


    I use effects from both hardware and software. The reverbs, drives and delays in the Axe FX are superior to any of my plugins, so that's what I often use when recording or re-amping.


    Reading all this I come to the conclusion that there is almost no common ground to find a way to communicate.Maybe it is my fault.If so,sorry for that.But I miss from your side the will to understand me.What you say about the rig manager and the Kempers LCD screen and buttons makes no sense at all to me.I never said that the profiler is no digital tool. Did I?


    You were suggesting that the developers are trying to dissuade tube amp enthusiasts from being traumatized by other modelers and digital simulations, the implication being that tube amp enthusiasts won't be traumatized because the KPA is a lot like a tube amp. In any case, I certainly don't see a lot of traumatized Axe FX or Helix users.