Kemper 2 expectations

    Quote from Jose7822

    You’re entitled to your opinion :-).


    The fact still remains, there are tons more Helix floor units being sold every day than Kempers or Axe FX, which goes in line with the need for a Kemper 2.0. Also, I felt the need to clarify misconceptions about Line 6 as a company. But yes, moving on!

    Most reviewers believe that the Kemper sounds significantly better than the Helix. Helix doesn't sell more because of its tone, or its features IMO. Helix sells more because of its price.


    If Kemper had a floor model in the same price range as the Helix, I think people would pick the new Kemper way more often than the Helix.

    Quote from ckemper

    Please have respect and understanding for the fact, that we rarely discuss in public future products or future features - including free software updates - that have not been announced yet. Same goes for stuff that we have no plans for (yet or never).


    You will probably notice that no serious company out there behaves differently.

    I can certainly respect that, though I consider Fractal Audio a serious company and I can cite multiple instances where new content was announced prior to actual updates.

    Quote from OneEng1

    Most reviewers believe that the Kemper sounds significantly better than the Helix. Helix doesn't sell more because of its tone, or its features IMO. Helix sells more because of its price.
    If Kemper had a floor model in the same price range as the Helix, I think people would pick the new Kemper way more often than the Helix.


    I pretty much agree with you on all counts, except I know for a fact that people do buy the Helix because of its tones. Don’t believe me? Just head over the big Helix thread found in the TGP digital modeling forum and read the myriads of comments about how good the Helix sounds. Line 6 has shown that they can improve the tone quality of the Helix, and they have throughout its lifetime. There are plenty of videos on the latest firmwares to prove it if you’re willing to search for them. Not only that, but many have sold their Kempers in exchange for a Helix BECAUSE of its features and portability.


    These days functionality is a HUGE deciding factor for most people when it comes to digital amp modelers since all of the major players sound very close to the real deal. The differences in tone, while they exist, are so small that even I prefer to use my Helix on gigs over the Kemper (and I’m very picky about my tone. But sometimes functionality trumps it).


    But definitely, IF the Kemper had a floorboard version at the same price range and similar functionality as the Helix then the Kemper would certainly sell A LOT more. I’m still not sure that it would sell more than the Helix only because Line 6 does an excellent job at promoting their products via the various retailers. But I digress.

    Quote from ColdFrixion

    I can certainly respect that, though I consider Fractal Audio a serious company and I can cite multiple instances where new content was announced prior to actual updates.

    I can also site multiple instances where Fractal announced to their customers that Their tone match is same as profiling. :D8o . That's a crazy announcement no? ?( . The exact quote is " Profiling is 99% EQ matching". which everyone should know is false..


    I wouldn't site Fractal in a discussions as serious company.considering the apparent misinformation in their announcement they put out, so why would Kemper would want to be like Fractal!!


    [Blocked Image: https://preview.ibb.co/i7A0w7/Cliff_Fractal_2.jpg]">

    Edited once, last by Dean_R ().

    You guys are off topic. How about a Kemper helmet? It should have a mind reading device that sucks my tone thoughts through my skull and immediately creates a profile. And mental switching to eliminate the foot pedal. Maybe that could be Kemper 4? 4.5 should have and upgrade to not mess up my hair.

    Quote from Dean_R

    I can also site multiple instances where Fractal announced to their customers that Their tone match is same as profiling. :D8o . That's a crazy announcement no? ?( . The exact quote is " Profiling is 99% EQ matching". which everyone should know is false..

    We've already hashed that out in another thread and it's completely irrelevant to my point here, which was that Fractal Audio has announced content in upcoming updates prior to their actual release, and I'm not familiar with any reputable source that wouldn't consider Fractal Audio a serious company.

    Quote from ColdFrixion

    We've already hashed that out in another thread and it's completely irrelevant to my point here, which was that Fractal Audio has announced content in upcoming updates prior to their actual release, and I'm not familiar with any reputable source that wouldn't consider Fractal Audio a serious company.

    Yes we hashed it out and to the dismay of many, your position was that Fractal never told its customers that "Tone Match is the same as profiling" because the statement says that it's only 99%!!


    Contrary to what you say, this is a very relevant to the point your trying to make.. Why would Kemper , need to look to other companies to emulate how they make announcements much less Fractal as you suggest, knowing how they put out outrageous false claim with authority that they themselves actually know how profiling works?


    Regardless, Kemper greatest success came from bucking the trend and doing things differently. In my humble opinion, Kemper would have had even more success if they had more focus on the amp modeling than the effects. Not saying to ignore effects, but I think many will be thrilled if the KPA can profile the actual gain knob even if the process takes a while and even if Kemper themselves can provide gain profiles of many amps.

    Quote from Dean_R

    Yes we hashed it out and to the dismay of many, your position was that Fractal never told its customers that "Tone Match is the same as profiling" because the statement says that it's only 99%!!
    Contrary to what you say, this is a very relevant to the point your trying to make.. Why would Kemper , need to look to other companies to emulate how they make announcements much less Fractal as you suggest, knowing how they put out outrageous false claim with authority that they themselves actually know how profiling works?

    Back to the actual topic... You'd be hard pressed to find a reputable source that thinks Fractal Audio isn't a serious company, least of all CK, who's agreed that the Axe FX is a really strong unit. That said, both Line 6 and Fractal Audio have announced new content prior to actual updates. While I'm not as partial to Line 6's amp models, I'd likewise consider them a serious company.

    Quote from ColdFrixion

    Back to the actual topic... You'd be hard pressed to find a reputable source that thinks Fractal Audio isn't a serious company, least of all CK, who's agreed that the Axe FX is a really strong unit. That said, both Line 6 and Fractal Audio have announced new content prior to actual updates. While I'm not as partial to Line 6's amp models, I'd likewise consider them a serious company.

    Please don't mind me as I'm trying to rationalize how to understand CK's post and how you seem to understand it. To me the summary of what Mr. CK said was : please don't press us on divulging what we're we're currently working on or planning but please don't stop inspiring Kemper as a company by suggesting what you would like to see. This is not exactly what he said but this is what I understood.


    Meanwhile you're responding by suggesting that Kemper should divulge and pre announce their plans because other reputable companies have divulged their plans in the past and what they were working on instead of suggesting what you would like to see. Yes line 6 is a reputable company, so again, why would Kemper copy other companies who currently are playing catchup to Kemper?


    I personally will say this for the last time as I have already several time before I exist this thread. I believe Kemper would make a huge advance if they focus more on Profiling the gain Knob, and to make Kemper able to play two profiles, this way we can have direct profiles of Preamps only and power amp only. This will also allow usability of profiles of drive Pedals, preamp pedals, etc in combination with either power amp only profiles or any other iteration. This will definitely open up the Kemper universe widely and wildly into any guitar tone imaginable or possible.


    Peace and happiness to all and thanks to CK for his humble and inspiring post.

    Edited once, last by Dean_R ().

    Like 3
    Quote from Jose7822

    I pretty much agree with you on all counts, except I know for a fact that people do buy the Helix because of its tones. Don’t believe me? Just head over the big Helix thread found in the TGP digital modeling forum and read the myriads of comments about how good the Helix sounds. Line 6 has shown that they can improve the tone quality of the Helix, and they have throughout its lifetime. There are plenty of videos on the latest firmwares to prove it if you’re willing to search for them. Not only that, but many have sold their Kempers in exchange for a Helix BECAUSE of its features and portability.


    These days functionality is a HUGE deciding factor for most people when it comes to digital amp modelers since all of the major players sound very close to the real deal. The differences in tone, while they exist, are so small that even I prefer to use my Helix on gigs over the Kemper (and I’m very picky about my tone. But sometimes functionality trumps it).


    But definitely, IF the Kemper had a floorboard version at the same price range and similar functionality as the Helix then the Kemper would certainly sell A LOT more. I’m still not sure that it would sell more than the Helix only because Line 6 does an excellent job at promoting their products via the various retailers. But I digress.

    For some people...a floor unit is not necessarily more convenient for live...I use the power amp in the Kemper and run it like a regular amp.


    I would not buy the Helix because of this (certainly not the floor unit version) . Would a floor vserion offer more options for other people, yes. But its not a binary choice.


    This is all preference.

    Several months down the road now and I honestly can't understand why anybody thinks the KPA needs a major update or is deficient in some really significant way.


    You're entitled to your opinion, but it's really immature and naive IMO to demand things from a company that continuously improves an already amazing product for free and doesn't try to build in obsolescence and make you buy the next model.


    Imagine how much you'd lose your mind if they released a KPA2 and then released a KPA3 18 months later.

    Quote from Finally

    Several months down the road now and I honestly can't understand why anybody thinks the KPA needs a major update or is deficient in some really significant way.


    You're entitled to your opinion, but it's really immature and naive IMO to demand things from a company that continuously improves an already amazing product for free and doesn't try to build in obsolescence and make you buy the next model.


    Nice to see a sane person stating the obvious.


    What some people here do on a daily basis has nothing to do with a sane discussion anymore..and of course it has nothing to do with any kind of serious requests..it does not even fall anymore in the category of "demanding" something.


    I am very happy that Kemper keeps up this serious reaction to this pressure from some people which is in my humble opinion not explainable anymore.Everything needs limits.I love passionate discussion but again..everything needs limits.

    Wow, I didn’t think a little forum for a product was some serious academic discussion. It can be fun too. No need for uber-fanboys to ruin it with demeaning insults such as ‘immature and naive’. I would think those with such a stagnant mind for a product would do well to simply avoid topics such as this one.

    Hey come one - we bought a computer - not vintage guitar gear.


    It will be obsolete like all other products after some time - when the next best comes around the corner.


    But since the KPA (1) is great sounding - it will sound great in the next years to come - even after we get a new one with full color displays, dual amps at once, profiling of the complete amp incl. the gain and tone controls, WiFi, iPad editor ...

    (All trademarks are trademarks of their respective owners, which are in no way associated or affiliated with soundside.de)


    Great Profiles --> soundside.de

    Like 2
    Quote from Jose7822

    The fact still remains, there are tons more Helix floor units being sold every day than Kempers or Axe FX, which goes in line with the need for a Kemper 2.0

    The fact that must not be overlooked ... Kemper sells all the units they can manufacture in no time. Even after 6 years this device sells like crazy so I wouldn't worry to much about a "need" for a Profiler 2.0 from the business perspective. ;)

    Quote from Nemo13

    Wow, I didn’t think a little forum for a product was some serious academic discussion. It can be fun too. No need for uber-fanboys to ruin it with demeaning insults such as ‘immature and naive’. I would think those with such a stagnant mind for a product would do well to simply avoid topics such as this one.

    And "uber fan boys" and "stagnant mind" is not a demeaning insult?


    I agree that everyone is a little OTT about this debate and this thread is one of the worst I've seen on this forum for non-rationale arguments that descend into negative comments at groups of people.


    Hence why many have dropped out of this discussion, I think I will too now.


    To be clear, all of us want the product to get better, its just whether that needs to be through a hardware change or not.

    And "uber fan boys" and "stagnant mind" is not a demeaning insult?


    No. There is a difference between assuming and classification. Let me help: I would never assume someone is immature or naive for having foresight or humor regarding a product.


    I would though make a classification on someone based on their continued comments. Would you prefer overly fond of over Uber? Fanboy? Stagnant is a correct term for non moving, yes?


    You can’t please everyone. ;)

    Quote from Dean_R

    Please don't mind me as I'm trying to rationalize how to understand CK's post and how you seem to understand it. To me the summary of what Mr. CK said was : please don't press us on divulging what we're we're currently working on or planning but please don't stop inspiring Kemper as a company by suggesting what you would like to see. This is not exactly what he said but this is what I understood.


    The crux of his post was completely simple and lucid, 'We listen to our customers, however we don't discuss future development publicly and we ask that you respect that. This is how every other serious company operates.' It's basically the same message I received when corresponding with Kemper support regarding a KPA editor, "We are of course aware of the wish for a computer based editor for the Profiler but I have to ask for your kind understanding that it is against the company policy to discuss any possible future developments with people outside the company."


    Quote from Dean_R

    Meanwhile you're responding by suggesting that Kemper should divulge and pre announce their plans because other reputable companies have divulged their plans in the past and what they were working on instead of suggesting what you would like to see. Yes line 6 is a reputable company, so again, why would Kemper copy other companies who currently are playing catchup to Kemper?


    This is a logical fallacy known as a *straw man, as I never suggested what Kemper should or shouldn't do. I was pointing out that there actually are other companies who do, in fact, talk about future development publicly.


    *A straw man is a common form of argument and is an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent's argument, while actually refuting an argument that was not presented by the opponent.