Kemper 2 expectations

Quote from flyingheelhook

Maybe?

I get you, mate.

After I made that post it occurred to me that the fancy presets I called "floating" ones ought to be called Smart Presets™.

Kemper, I'll accept a commission / royalties for the use of both the concept and the name.

Goto 7:30 of this new video

They will talk about how the kemper makes a snap shot of the settings or amp at that time.
BUT when you use bass or gain etc, its the kempers EQ(ish) and wont be the same as the amp
BUT DOES A GOOD JOB.

Now they talk about how using IR's and other mapping tricks
and making a computer circuit board of the amps in the Apollo Twin
enable this function to be an accurate representation of the amp'
Watch the vid from 7:30 very interesting
So if i had to bitch and moan

this would be invaluable for digital amps
if Marshal can let Apollo do it , why not kemper?
one of their amp profiles on the apollo twin took 2 years to make..

Ash

That’s modeling versus profiling.

So a UAD model of a JCM800 might behave just like the one they modeled but sound nothing like MY amp, mic’ed the way *I* like to mic it etc.

That’s what I prefer the Kemper.
It sounds like MY amps and recording prefs.
But yes, the more you grab the profile the way you want it and NOT try to change the tone or distortion level after the fact, the closer it sounds.

This is true , at the end of the day thats what the kemper was designed for. And of cause CK said the algorithm is almost perfect.

Ash

I tried that plugin and wasn't very impressed, not enough to buy it.. However, most every plugin I have bought and used are just wicked. It's a great interface Ash, I wouldn't go with anything else again.

It probably appeals to players that like to tinker and edit. Kemper was my choice in the end because it is less about editing and more about playing. It is the best sound I ever had live and I value the relative simplicity.

I spent 2 hours in the the studio yesterday building 1 rig!

Found and edited the amp to my liking in less than 5 minutes, the rest of the time was spent filling the fx slots.

That clunky browser for fx HAS to be sorted out!

When you finally get what you want, it's great, but it should not be such a pain in the arse to get there.

We've had the kemper in the studio for three years now, and it sounds as great as ever, but what a bloody inspiration killer it is having to fight the fx menu.

A fix to this has been requested for as long as I've been visiting this forum, and I suspect, for some time before that.
Whomever thinks that the current system is the best way forward is delusional.

Please fix this.

Quote from Jose7822

The point I was trying to make was that a floor version of the Kemper is likely to be in even higher demand than the toaster, or rack versions, given the success of the Helix. I wasn’t talking about Kemper needing to release a Kemper 2.0 because the current version is not selling well anymore. Not at all! But I can see how it might’ve read that way :-).

I think the Profiler is great as it is, and the only thing I would improve is some of the on-board effects. The (free!) delay upgrade showed that the Profiler is still a very capable unit.

However, if Kemper were to release a floor unit that was a cut-down version (ie without profiling capabilities, maybe fewer IO), I would buy it in a heartbeat and still keep my KPA in the studio. This would make it a lot easier to fly while still using my best sounds. I’ve flown with the KPA and it is unnecessarily big. My dream unit would have:

- All the FX slots of the KPA
- Be 1:1 compatible sound-wise, so that I could create my rigs on the KPA, but play them on the floor unit. I would accept a more basic set of parameters to tweak, but would love to keep them all.
- Stereo XLR out, separate monitor out and phones.
- Preferably have one expression pedal with toe switch on the unit.

Also coffee maker and heated massage.
For less than $100.

Seriously though: I’m wondering if there would be interest in essentially a Kemper “player”,
That ONLY downloaded profiles and effects from your full-on Kemper Profiling Amp and let you play them.

That would be basically a Kemper without the Profiling ability.
But anything less than that (output settings, multiple outputs, ability to turn effects on and off, tap tempo, etc) would probably make it unsuitable for live use.

Taking away the ability to profile, would not bring down the cost in any significant way.

The addition of foot switches and a larger display, would likely bring the price up to at least that of the current model, more likely a fair bit more.

A remote style "profile player" would be great for jams,rehearsals & (very) small gigs.

Take the remote(maybe a little bigger version) add some I/Os(for guitar/monitor/FOH) and a smartphone app to tweak basic parameters (vol,gain,EQ,fx on/off/mix etc).Offer this only to KPA-users as a "asseccoires"..do not sell it to anyone else.

Win-win..

A Helix or AX8 style floorboard would be pretty cool, but at the same time, the Player idea is good to us, but I don't really see how it would appeal to the mass market. The thing about profiles is that they're fairly inflexible and not as tweakable as the amp models on the AX8, Helix, Headrush, etc., but given that the Kemper not modeling is the point, it's OK. However, the issue is that a Kemper Player type product would basically just end up being an AX8 that you can't really manipulate the sound of in any meaningful way. Why would I want a floorboard player that can load up specific sounds when I can get an AX8 and have full-on amp models I can tweak?

It's a good idea, but only really for people who are already sold on the concept of the Kemper, and not too many others.

The cost of a more simplified floor unit would be less than double that of the current Kemper floor pedal IMO. In fact, I think that the current floor pedal form factor is pretty close to what I would expect from the Kemper Floor Processor.

If that statement is accurate, then a $1300.00 street price would be completely possible (more than double that of the floor controller).

I think for the product to make sense, it needs to stand alone without the need of another Kemper unit. Sure, I can see it not being able to profile. That would bring the price down, but more importantly, it would differentiate it from the current product line as well.

I completely agree that the internal processing must remain identical. Rigs made with a full KPA need to sound exactly the same on the Kemper Floor Processor and maintain the same exact architecture for editing in order to take advantage of the current infrastructure (rigs, rig manager, and Toast ME).

I still think that little or no knobs on the unit is the way to go. A USB or MIDI editor would be the way to modify / setup the unit.

I never touch my KPA when I am performing. In fact, it sits on top of my rack mixer in the back of the stage.... out of sight and out of mind. My foot controller is my only interface when performing.

“ never touch my KPA when I am performing. In fact, it sits on top of my rack mixer in the back of the stage.... out of sight and out of mind. My foot controller is my only interface when performing...”

Exactly.
That’s why I say a “player” only would be fine.

The helix or fractal are modelers. You’re basically building block putting together a sound in those boxes. (And it’s someone’s idea of an AC30 or whatever, not your ACTUAL AC30) it’s ENTIRELY different than your own profiles and so naturally is ‘tweakable’

I still can’t ever tweak one to sound good enough to replace my amps.
With the Kemper I take MY sounds with me.

Quote from telelogic

I spent 2 hours in the the studio yesterday building 1 rig!

Found and edited the amp to my liking in less than 5 minutes, the rest of the time was spent filling the fx slots.

That clunky browser for fx HAS to be sorted out!

When you finally get what you want, it's great, but it should not be such a pain in the arse to get there.

We've had the kemper in the studio for three years now, and it sounds as great as ever, but what a bloody inspiration killer it is having to fight the fx menu.

A fix to this has been requested for as long as I've been visiting this forum, and I suspect, for some time before that.
Whomever thinks that the current system is the best way forward is delusional.

Please fix this.

Display More

Sorry to hear you struggle so much with the layout of the Kemper. What is it that takes you 2 hours to edit a rig, or is that partly making the decisions about the sound too?

I would not want to deny anyone an editor or better layout, but I never really struggled with this kind of thing except when preparing about 60 sounds for the live set. A way of copying fx quickly would have been very welcome then.

I found a lot of tips here about arranging the effects that you use often and keeping the patches well organised that keep things simple.

Quote from thrashinbatman

A Helix or AX8 style floorboard would be pretty cool, but at the same time, the Player idea is good to us, but I don't really see how it would appeal to the mass market. The thing about profiles is that they're fairly inflexible and not as tweakable as the amp models on the AX8, Helix, Headrush, etc., but given that the Kemper not modeling is the point, it's OK. However, the issue is that a Kemper Player type product would basically just end up being an AX8 that you can't really manipulate the sound of in any meaningful way. Why would I want a floorboard player that can load up specific sounds when I can get an AX8 and have full-on amp models I can tweak?

It's a good idea, but only really for people who are already sold on the concept of the Kemper, and not too many others.

Exactly..a floorboard player should be just an "extension" and not a floorboard Kemper Version..let us be honest here:you dont see many helix or even AX8 with any big act on stage.There are reasons for this.The floorboard kind of thing is not really for touring around the world.

A floorboard player would be a nice help for many of us who have to carry the KPA & Remote even to rehearsals and think often about to leave all this at home for jams or a small "coffeehouse" gig where even a pod or a sim/laptop does the job..

In my personal view the main concern of the Kemper "philosophy" should be keeping the professional/serious side of things in mind.

But it would be maybe a good idea to offer some "helpfully tools" for the non-/semi pros who need an editor for their home studio or a tool which is even easier to carry around than a toaster/rack & remote package..

IMO it would be a completely new thing if Kemper would keep the KPA as it is for many years to come as "the core" just adding other tools around it..starting maybe from a I/O interface(including editor),than a dedicated top class FX unit,followed by a guitar synth etc..this would be a completely new and very serious concept in my eyes.Ofcourse I don't know if this is technically possible with the current KPA.But in any case it would be a "slap in the face" for the competition and their nervous handling of upgrades/new products.

@Nikos

Totally agree

These are just my thoughts on the matter, I appreciate that other people have different requirements so I hope this doesn’t come across as me trying to shut down anyone from voicing their own opinion.

The reason I bought a KPA is still relevant….. A few years ago I had been won over by the convenience of a Line 6 POD HD500 and DT25 amp pairing. It sounded good and made using effects in a live situation much simpler; with the benefit of sounding great at home too. Before, I’d gone through a never ending cycle of upgrading pedalboards, PSUs and cables to accommodate the latest effect pedal addition; only to find it complicated to use live and ditching the lot for a while. The HD500 & DT25 fixed that entirely and I loved how I could use minimal cabling to connect everything on the stage floor. The editor was good too.

However, the HD500 was seriously flawed for my needs. It was terrible to use without the editor. The patch switching suffered a long gap of silence and reverb and delay tails would always cut off. I found a way to use the dual amp feature to allow immediate switching/allow tails but it used huge amounts of CPU so I couldn’t use any fancy delays or reverbs. Secondly, whilst it sounded good it didn’t sound how I wanted. The amps lacked a bite that I desired, I could get close by using two EQ blocks but that wasn’t possible without overloading the CPU and it became a big compromise.

Line 6 eventually announced an update with a global EQ and some new amp models and I hoped this would be the fix I’d been looking for….Except after the long, long wait for the update to be released it turned out you had to pay for the amp models and the global EQ was only available for theHD500X model, not the near identical HD500.

Enter the KPA Powerhead, fast switching, delay/reverb tails as standard, all of the convenience of the POD but with the ability to add as many profiles as I wanted and to have the exact sounds I had been chasing for a few years. The Helix was on the horizon but delay/reverb tails were still an issue. I’d proven that seamless patch switching was more important to me than dual amps but even with a fix due I no longer had faith in Line 6’s promises. I didn’t miss the editor and don’t really like the whole thing on the floor as I prefer to keep cables away from my feet (I also connect to a sampler/audio player totrigger sounds by MIDI from the pedals, FOH, cab and IEM rack so have quite alot of cables!).

The KPA still hits the bullseye on everything for me. Yeah, spring reverb would be fun and I’d appreciate better preset management. I can totally see why some people really would like a USB editor too, even if I’d probably never use it. The ability to profile drive pedals separately from the amp would definitely be good to have! Being audio/USB interface capable wouldbe handy but I’ve already got a capable device for that and there are reasons to not include that technology which can be argued. Dual amp ability is of no interest to me.

The KPA’s direct competitors are the Helix, AxeFX and GT1000 and I’ve heard people voice concerns that the KPA is no longer seen as the best sounding but I don’t think that has ever been the point. Yes, it sounds brilliant but it’s the one that you can add endless amps to once you get bored of what the designer came up with; listening to Helix and Fractal users gush about the importance of cab IRs still makes me smile a little…. I can see the appeal of a‘Kemper Player’ as I’ve never profiled an amp either but the relevant hardware in the box isn’t much; the financial saving would be small – maybe as little as £100?

Kemper don’t appear to show an ambition to become a large company like Line 6. They’re not coming up with multiple product lines, reaching for year on year growth. They may not care if they’re being outsold by them. I don’t know their long term plan but maybe they see the market as a continually changing field; unpredictable and dangerous to invest in too heavily. To maintain growth you have to invest more and more into all the business support functions that have nothing to do with the product and you can easily become an inefficient, fragile monster. Gone are the days of jobs for life. Maybe they’re earning a nice wage, working for a small, flexible and enjoyable company, are happy with what they have and will make something entirely different when the KPA 1 sales diminish.

Please, wish away for a KPA 2, I’m not suggesting otherwise but CK has come up with a product that suits me more than anything else outthere. A few additions to the current model are unlikely to make me get a KPA2, it would likely take another game changing device to do so!

For anyone who has ever been on a soundtrack recording session with seventy or eighty cues, where slight (or extreme) on-the-fly tweaks (done quickly) are necessary throughout, and where each new tone must be saved as a new rig with a descriptor and cue-number name, in case there are changes later, you might appreciate why so many recording pros have been requesting an editor since day one. This argument that only home users want an editor is a conceit with no basis in reality.

PS This from someone who loves the tones, the front panel, etc.

Quote from creative360

For anyone who has ever been on a soundtrack recording session with seventy or eighty cues, where slight (or extreme) on-the-fly tweaks (done quickly) are necessary throughout, and where each new tone must be saved as a new rig with a descriptor and cue-number name, in case there are changes later, you might appreciate why so many recording pros have been requesting an editor since day one. This argument that only home users want an editor is a conceit with no basis in reality.

PS This from someone who loves the tones, the front panel, etc.

I agree with the need for speed and flexibility in those situations, but I'm not certain why a SOFTWARE, or computer based, editor is intrinsically superior.
I see an awful lot of synth guys on those big dates still editing on the Fantom (or whatever) and not on a laptop.