Kemper 2 expectations

    Quote from OneEng1

    I was REALLY Leary of moving from my venerable Allen & Heath Mix Wizzard to my current X32 Rack. I mean really .... who had ever heard of a mixer with no faders!


    I gotta tell you guys, I aint ever goin back to a physical console. I am completely hooked on the features I now have.


    ....

    Technology is moving so fast, and Behringer makes really good products for very reasonable prices.


    I needed a small interface for my laptop for a portable practice guitar setup for plugins and impulse responses , so I just got one of their U-phoria HD interfaces for dirt cheap. I just updated to the latest driver and was able to to get a solid 4 to 5ms round trip latency. It's really mind blowing that something under a hundred dollars can get you that type of performance. Keep in mind Kemper and AXE can have between 2 to 3ms latency.


    So yes for premium prices, there definitely needs to be significant updates to address as many customers as possible.

    Quote from mmmaslowski

    Just to add - in the context you have defined here - I like what BOSS have done with the GT-1000

    The GT1000 is a great temptation for me.
    I tried it from a friend at home and the sound would certainly be good enough for my audience.
    Finally the direct comparison with the Kemper regarding the haptics of the sound development and dynamics held me back to buy the thing and to send the Kemper into retirement.
    Without direct A/B comparison I would not have noticed it so strongly any more.



    But just wearing a floorboard, having an editor and access with mobile phone are very strong arguments after I don't make profiles.

    I like the Kemper. I’m not crazy about endlessly extending its functionality. If possible a bit deeper drive stomp, reverbs to answer some of my collaborators’ naysaying (so I don’t need to show-up with anything else), and yeah an editor to make the process of experimenting, comparing and building rigs and presets and performances more inviting and productive. But once my engines are going, the KPA is a guitar amp and I like it that way. Haha but if they could fit a wireless receiver in there, one that can accept a handful of brands’ transmitters .. sure that would be cool. No more cables (and no extra unit) would be fun. But cmon, things are already pretty good.

    Quote from Dean_R


    Technology is moving so fast, and Behringer makes really good products for very reasonable prices.


    Behringer is the scum of the world. The reason why their products are so cheap is because they literally steal schematics from other products, so they don’t have to invest in R&D. They also use cheap parts to lower prices even further. I was made aware recently that Behringer has an entire city of factories in China, with gigantic rooms full of cubicles with so called “engineers” that do nothing but copy schematics from other companies. It’s really messed up.


    I’ll never buy a Behringer product just because of this. Gotta support the companies that do move the music industry forward, instead of those that hinder it by selling stolen products for cheaper. But I digress.

    Quote from Jose7822

    Behringer is the scum of the world. The reason why their products are so cheap is because they literally steal schematics from other products, so they don’t have to invest in R&D. They also use cheap parts to lower prices even further. I was made aware recently that Behringer has an entire city of factories in China, with gigantic rooms full of cubicles with so called “engineers” that do nothing but copy schematics from other companies. It’s really messed up.


    I’ll never buy a Behringer product just because of this. Gotta support the companies that do move the music industry forward, instead of those that hinder it by selling stolen products for cheaper. But I digress.


    I think the times are changing though. Some of Behringer's stuff nowadays isn't ripoffs, they are designing some very nice products. Reliability issues also seem to be a thing of the past.

    Quote from nightlight

    I think the times are changing though. Some of Behringer's stuff nowadays isn't ripoffs, they are designing some very nice products. Reliability issues also seem to be a thing of the past.


    The information I got is current and from a person high up in the music industry (who will remain unnamed). If you wanna support a company like that, go ahead. Personally I think people who buy Behringer products are knowingly (or unknowingly) hurting the innovative companies in the music industry. Just one mans thoughts :-).

    Quote from wwittman

    Who's not at all a competitor of theirs... <g>
    That used to be the case with Behringer.


    They're definitely becoming a more serious, low cost, option


    The fact that some people are willing to accept how Behringer operates and be ok with that says A LOT!


    The person who shared that information with me is a respectable guy and gets along just fine with his peers (including direct competitors). Obviously, in the case of Behringer, he is rightfully not happy about them since they’ve stolen schematics from some of their products in the past. Any normal human being operating a legit business wouldn’t be happy about that, I’d think.


    If you don’t care about how Behringer goes about their business, and still want to purchase Behringer products, then go ahead. I’m not stopping you. I just wanted to share a piece of information given to me by a person inside the music business who knows what they’re talking about (rather than listen to what random people in a forum “think” is going on).


    Like I said, moving on. This is getting too OT.

    No need for Behringer bashing (or other brands for that matter).
    While Behringer may have acted dubiously in the past fact is they BOUGHT expertise and knowledge by buying MIDAS.
    That’s why the X32 series is that good.



    And while we're at it, I remember when Ibanez did cheap rip-offs of Fender designs.
    The rest is history.

    Oh, I just remembered.....


    I rack mount my Kemper rack, and own a foot controller. The one thing that bothers me about the Kemper connections is that the foot controller ethernet on the kemper side is NOT an Ethercon connection.


    I made a patch panel on back of my rack and fixed this, but if CK would be so nice as to add an Ethercon connection on the next version ..... that would sure be great :)

    Quote from Jose7822

    Behringer is the scum of the world. The reason why their products are so cheap is because they literally steal schematics from other products, so they don’t have to invest in R&D. They also use cheap parts to lower prices even further. I was made aware recently that Behringer has an entire city of factories in China,

    The world is a global village and many starting poor musicians will have zero access to hardly any any product if it weren't for some companies making cheap or reasonably priced products. Believe me here are so many customers that won't touch behringer or anything cheap enough to keep big name brands alive to a certain degree.


    No harm done or intended by anyone, everyone is chasing money to make a living, some have better options and one or few companies aren't responsible for the worlds problems,actually if it weren't for these companies these problems wouldn't be in focus,


    Some are fortunate and if Kemper 2 is announced tomorrow, you'd have a good waiting list, is behringer realy hurting Kemper by making a controller that works with Kemper? I don't think so per what I said above.

    Quote from OneEng1

    Oh, I just remembered.....


    I rack mount my Kemper rack, and own a foot controller. The one thing that bothers me about the Kemper connections is that the foot controller ethernet on the kemper side is NOT an Ethercon connection.


    I made a patch panel on back of my rack and fixed this, but if CK would be so nice as to add an Ethercon connection on the next version ..... that would sure be great :)

    could do what Fractal did and use XLR (they call it Faslink)

    Quote from Jose7822

    Behringer is the scum of the world. The reason why their products are so cheap is because they literally steal schematics from other products, so they don’t have to invest in R&D. They also use cheap parts to lower prices even further. I was made aware recently that Behringer has an entire city of factories in China, with gigantic rooms full of cubicles with so called “engineers” that do nothing but copy schematics from other companies. It’s really messed up.


    I’ll never buy a Behringer product just because of this. Gotta support the companies that do move the music industry forward, instead of those that hinder it by selling stolen products for cheaper. But I digress.


    Some of this USED TO be true like, 10-15 years ago. They, just like many, many, many other companies have created cheap clones of other products. The latest is their copy of a Moog called the Model D and a bunch of other classic synths. Name a pedal company that doesn't have a TS808 clone: they all do.


    Behringers Chinese factories are no secret. In fact, they are very open and proud of them -- they BUILT and OWN the factories and host journalists there every year. Most of the people that work there, also live there. The latest is called MusicTribe City. Here's a recent article about it. Ever since their production has moved out of Mexico, Germany, and 3rd party Chinese factories to their own, their product quality has skyrocketed. My company sells Behringer, and out of the thousands of X-Touch Series MIDI controllers we've sold, not a SINGLE. ONE. has had a manufacturing defect. Not one.


    "Giant cubicle farms"... uhm, yeaaah.


    You do know that Behringer (technically, Music Group) owns all these companies, right? ...


    • Midas
    • Klark Teknik
    • Lab Gruppen
    • Lake
    • Tannoy
    • Turbosound
    • TC Electronic
    • TC Helicon
    • Behringer
    • Bugera
    • Cool Audio


    Midas, Turbosound, TC Electronic <--- yeah, all TERRIBLE products, horrible quality control, and no innovation whatsoever.


    So please educate yourself before spreading misinformation from people whose feelings were emotionally triggered by Uli having a better business model than them.

    Quote from Jose7822

    Behringer is the scum of the world. The reason why their products are so cheap is because they literally steal schematics from other products, so they don’t have to invest in R&D. They also use cheap parts to lower prices even further. I was made aware recently that Behringer has an entire city of factories in China, with gigantic rooms full of cubicles with so called “engineers” that do nothing but copy schematics from other companies. It’s really messed up.


    I’ll never buy a Behringer product just because of this. Gotta support the companies that do move the music industry forward, instead of those that hinder it by selling stolen products for cheaper.

    Actually an unnecessary and dubious statement, which one could even judge as damaging to business.
    My experience with Behringer has been positive.
    Got the mixers Air XR18 and XR16 (for the 2nd band) as well as active monitors and studio monitors.
    Each of these devices is cheaper than its competitors but by no means worse.
    They cook with water like everyone else but I always got good equipment in terms of price and technology.


    From a protectionist point of view one could discuss but simply bad talk is unfair.


    BTW: I stopped looking after the published image many years ago and I ride quite well with it.

    One thing I would like to see hardware wise is a neutral mic amp and phantom power on the mic input. This would not only allow you to profile with nice condensers, but it would allow you to profile expensive mic preamps to use when recording. This could conceivably open up a whole new market of even non guitarists buying a Kemper to expand their mic amp collection.


    I've made some profiles of my Avalon 737 for bass and acoustic guitars and I made one profile set up for singing into my Shure Beta 57 which I can plug into the guitar input with an xlr to 1/4" transformer. The profiles sound cool to me.

    A GOOD quality mic preamp remains a relatively expensive device. (Starting typically at about $500 USD).
    I’m not sure it’s really something the KOA needs of it adds perhaps that 500 to the price.


    I always make profiles through really good preamps (which i’d rather choose myself, my pref being for discrete class A transformer in and out) but I wouldn’t want to pay more to have one built into the KPA AND I want a pre that makes my amps sound GREAT. NOT someone’s idea of “neutral” (which is really a marketing term anyway)


    OK, I wasn’t going to comment on this topic anymore because my intention wasn’t to derail this thread. But I guess I’ll reply to this since it pretty much encompasses all the other replies.


    Yes, I am aware that Behringer has acquired some of the top name companies in the industry over the years. Of course these companies have great products that were developed and are still developed with their respective engineers doing legit R&D. That R&D has even trickled down to their own Behringer brand. Understood!


    However, you do realize that the reason why Behringer was able to acquire these companies in the first place was because of money earned selling products made from schematics stolen from other companies and sold for much cheaper, right? (Rhetorical question, since you did acknowledge that this is how Behringer operated 10-15 years ago). The point is, you’re OK with Behringer because now they’re “legit”? Seriously, the logic brought forth here is mind blowing. Regardless of how Behringer operates now, the fact of the matter is that they got were they are by performing unethical practices.


    If that’s the business model you support, go ahead. Personally, I don’t support companies like that.

    Quote from Ingolf

    @Jose7822, I appreciate your ethical focus, but according to your logic there's no Ibanez or Marshall for you. And many more. Where do you start to make compromises?

    It’s one thing to do something like a Fender or a Marshall, but with your own take on it. Pretty much every musical instrument company does that. Us, musicians do that all the time. We create songs that are in a certain musical style that we took from someone else, but we make it our own. Can you say the Blues? How many times has that been rehashed and yet you can get several flavors like Rock Blues, Jazz Blues, Texas Blues, Funk Blues, Delta Blues, etc. What Behringer did was more like copywrite infringement. Literally, taken a product as is and rebranding it. That’s the difference!