Photos of amps in Rig Manager

  • Not sure if this has been suggested before. Wouldn't it be cool to have pictures or images of amps embedded into your profile? Kind of like album covers in MP3s. Or maybe just in the Rig Manager.

    You could click on your fave profile and have all the data you have now (cabs, mics, channels, etc.) plus some tasty images of the profiled amp.

    I did a quick search and nothing but "snapshots" came up.

    What do you's think?

  • Unbelievable. =O I've been thinking about this for a few months, and was about to create an FR-request for it myself, raunch!

    The only "stumbling block" I've been able to think of in all that time is the question of the image's file size. Rigs are tiny, and I'm sure many including Kemper would prefer to keep them that way.

    For example, if your RM backup file is, say, 140mb for 50k Profiles (a big library) when the Rigs are 4->6k each in size as they are now, imagine how that'd blow out if each had a 50 or 100k picture in it? 100k would make the Rigs and backup file 20 times larger, so that 140mb backup's gonna become almost 3GB!

    Two possible solutions:

    Picture File Size
    Limit the pic file size (and possibly pixel-count, but that shouldn't matter as much as any display window provided should be able to automatically scale to fit) to perhaps 20k. That would mean the backup example above would increase from 140mb to around 550mb ~ much-more manageable.

    Picture Database
    Rather than embed them in the Rigs, RM and / or the editor (yes, I assume we'll get one) could maintain a database folder containing all attached images. It would be important to make it as easy to back up as possible, IMHO. That is, to be able to copy the folder itself (drag and drop) as well as a menu option like the overall RM backup one.

    The database idea is preferable also because multiple images could be stored for any given Rig without blowing its file size out.

    Why am I making such a big deal about file size? One example would have to be the number of Rigs you can keep in your Kemper. That 999-Rig limit we have now (excluding Performance Rigs), with a 100k picture embedded in each Rig, would suddenly become 48 Rigs, and that IMHO is a big deal.

  • Yeah, you are right about the image size. It probably wouldn't be ok for many users to use 3GB just on images. But then again, how many rigs or profiles would have the same image? Lets say, for a single amp, your average profile pack has some 25 odd profiles in them, maybe you could just have 3 images for that entire pack (Front, Back, Money shot)? That you definitely reduce the image database size. So, like you said multiple images for any given Rig.

    Maybe you could even fetch the image from a remote site. But that would mean Rig Manager would need a connection to the Internet.

    Another question is the legal side. Many profiles are stating "trying to capture the tone of XYZ amp". What would happen if they started distributing actual images of the amp? But then again I'd be happy with the images on the respective web sites.

    In the end, I'd actually be ok sacrificing 3GB for my profiles. The Kemper is an integral part of my setup and actually seeing the amp in front of you in Rig Manager you inspire you to play more.

    Any other opinions?

  • Yes, the legality is something I forgot to mention 'cause I "yarped on" so much about the pic-size issue.

    As Raunch did, I pictured(!) in my mind's eye the vendors' M.O., which they've been "forced" into, of stating that they're trying to capture the sound / tone of such and such an amp, and IIRC, many or all of them don't even use "authentic" images on their "deeper-info" pages, let alone "front-banner" blurbs, but instead employ tweaked ones that, for instance, have their own cleverly-disguised name equivalents as replacements for the badges.

    Could well be that this puts an end to the matter, if not for the fact that...

    "Tweaked" images that look very much like the originals might be able to be used in the same way the vendors do. This could still serve the intended purpose, allowing us to quickly recognise what we're dealing with amp-wise.

  • I have been thinking the same thing recently but possibly for different reasons.

    I don't want or need a photo of the amp to see what it looks like. Therefore, a general database of images wouldn't be of any use.

    What I was thinking was that I would like to see the actual amp settings used on the profile. Along with mic positions etc. That would need at least one dedicated image per profile which would make the file sized way to big to be worthwhile.

    When I got my KPA I wanted to see how close to some real amps I am familiar with it sounded so I bought BHP Triaxis pack. They sound good but don't sound like my Triaxis. I would like to see the amp settings they used and compare them to my own amp. To be fair though it wouldn't really add much to my use of the profiler for other people's profiles only really as a quick way of tracking settings on my own profiles which I could do just as easily be taking a photo and saving it locally using the profile name.

    On the other hand adding a settings section to the Rig Manager tags would be an alternative way of achieving a similar result.

  • Hmm... that got me thinking, WTD...

    What if Kemper designed a generic representation of the amp front panel settings? It could be a simple black-on-white (or reverse) text-based graphic (not a picture) that could therefore look great at a tiny, standardised file size.

    IOW, basic text-style symbols that'd only take a few bytes to represent, such as this sort of thing:

    ➔ ➜

    ∆ ⧨ ⧋

    ♂ ⛢ ☌ ⧂ ⧬

    ⚆ ∅ ⦰ ⦽

    Obvious candidates might be:

    ⚆ ⧂

    ... or something to that effect. The "pics" would be

    A higher-tech, prettier approach would be to design a graphic in Kemper colours or what have you, perhaps to match the style used in any forthcoming editor (or RM), for which individual Rigs need only store the actual number settings; the app would render the graphic accordingly.

  • You know, after having given it even more thought, I'm now of the opinion that this ain't gonna work, at least not in the short term.

    The knobs' settings would have to be entered into (newly-created by Kemper) tag fields within the Rig. Folks tend to be a bit lazy, I've found (even some commercial Profilers), when it comes to filling out the "few" tag fields we have now, so imagine the compliance rate if we had to transcribe a further half a dozen value figures for every Profile we make?

    It won't be as simple as reusing tags from one Profile to the next (with minor tweaks) as I'm sure many do now because by definition you're not gonna make a batch of Profiles unless you adjust knobs for each one (forgetting mic position for the moment).

    It seems I didn't think about it enough. Scratch that. I thought about it way too much this year, but it wasn't quality thought, just starry-eyed dreamin'. "Wouldn't it be great if...", seeing pretty pictures in my mind. The practicality of implementation has brought me back down to earth with a thud. :/

  • Actually I kinda like that idea Monkey_Man but probably most of the settings and knob positions have long been forgotten. Not only that but one man's "treble on 7" is another man's "treble on 11", if I understand you correctly.

    I always thought of profiles as an amp sound, a mic position plus other variables or a producer's taste in amp recording or production, you know?

    Like WHD mentioned that the BHP didn't sound like his Triaxis. That makes sense because there's so much more to the signal chain than just the amp's tone signature.

    That is another reason why I don't think profiles really infringe on amp maker's copyrights, that is, although BHP's Soldano attempt is awesome it sounds different to Rockprofile's amazing SLO profile. I really don't think you're squeezing an entire amp into a single 35kb file but you are buying BHP's taste in recording tones. Does that make sense? I'm a little off topic here :-)

    thisamplifierisloud: it's pure eye candy, definitely. But I'd dig it if I could open up my RM and *see* the actual amp instead of just a list of profiles.

    Profilers wouldn't have to distribute image either, every could scrape their own images from the Net.

    I guess I like my MP3s to all have cover images and I just saying it would be top-notch to have that in the RM as well.

  • Yeah, I too would love it. I'm the same with iTunes; I'll scrape the 'net for a generic image if I have to for a song (if none is available). Heck, I even standardise their names and pixel widths, so I definitely know where you're coming from. That's precisely why I started "dreaming" about it earlier in the year.

    It's as we both alluded to 'though - folks are lazy, and mightn't accurately enter values, if at all, and then there's the entire imageless RE collection...

  • Hi, been following you and reading your posts for a moment, but never had the opportunity to give back.
    I've been developing my own "tweaker" for my Kemper and I think that a good picture is worth a couple words.
    These are screen shot of the tool I'm developing(it's still under development). Hope it can give you a good illustration of what can be done.

    1. Rig Browser (the amp pictures are "borrowed" from the Helix Editor)

    [Blocked Image:]

    2. Picture Selection

    [Blocked Image:]

    The tweaker is just an editor for the Stomps Param
    [Blocked Image:]

    Hope this helps

  • Great looking interface, if you can get some custom graphics made for the amps (copyright issues with Line 6) and get together with the developer of the "Toast ME" midi editor.... this would be amazing!

  • This app was never meant to go "public", that why I allowed myself to use those graphics. I don't have the skills to do it myself but a good designer can come easily with a collection of amps pictures.
    "Toast Me" , "The toaster editor" and "bjdevices" where a great source of informations for understanding the internal of the Kemper.
    My Kemper tweaker is still under development and the road to a finished product is quiet long. And for me it's a learning project changing the goals of the projects will be difficult.


  • eole....well done! Looks like a handy tool for sure. I really like the "tweak it" part and the "signal flow" up the top. I think you're onto something here and if one day you think it can go public, please do share it.

    The more I think about images of the amps the more I like the idea. :)