"The Kemper does get fantastic tones, but... there’s just a tiny thing missing"

  • I wouldn't be in a position to turn it up to the necessary volume, and if I did, it would ruin the overall mix.

    Most of the most vocal group of tne snobs that complain the KPA doesn’t sound like a real amp tend to be super macho metal heads how insist that they need two 412 cabs and a triple rec cranked to get “their” tone. They will tell you which brand of valve to have in each valve placement and which combination of speakers to use when rewiring your cabinet because the way Mesa or Marshalor Soldano build them isn’t quite right.


    They then go on to say they can’t play properly (lack inspiration) if they don’t have “their” sound and masses of air movng. Then brag that all is fine as long as “their” sound if right and they couldn’t care less whether the audience can hear anything but them, whether the sound guy can create a balanced mix - that’s not my problem I sound great and am “inspired”! I don’t care if the band sounds like shit!


    I don’t mean to single out metal players in isolation, there are lots of others with the same affliction but the metal heads seem to be the ones shouting about it on forums.


    The other thing that surprises me is that many of the TUBE sounds that people say KPA can’t fully capture don’t really sound like tubes to me anyway as they are so heavily processed.


    I know from my limited attempts at profiling my own amps that there is a very slight difference playing through the same cab in the room but it is so slight as makes no difference to me. In fact I often end up preferring the profile to the real amp.

  • It does exist, although I think everyone is missing it. It has nothing to do with copying warmth or quality.
    The missing '5%' (or more) is that tube amps are like people ---- > moody. Kemper takes a 'snapshot' of your tone and you stay at that snapshot, a perfect pleasing tone all the time.

    or a consistently moody tone depending on how your valve amp was feeling when you profiled it ;)


    To be fair I sometimes think my KPA is SO valve like that the tone even changes from day to day just to mimic the real thing. Either my ears are knackered or the Christoph Kemper is beyond a genius :)

  • or a consistently moody tone depending on how your valve amp was feeling when you profiled it ;)
    To be fair I sometimes think my KPA is SO valve like that the tone even changes from day to day just to mimic the real thing. Either my ears are knackered or the Christoph Kemper is beyond a genius :)

    Explain how a ‘snapshot’ changes from day to day? Perhaps you mean your ears. ;)

  • And each tube amp reaches max. 5% of the Profiler's abilities.

    Really? Take a good picture of yourself. Hang it all the wall. Do you look good? Sure. Do you move around, change your clothes, smile, frown, anything?


    No. Your picture on the wall will always look the same.


    The real you can move and be different in infinite ways. ;)

  • It does exist, although I think everyone is missing it. It has nothing to do with copying warmth or quality.
    The missing '5%' (or more) is that tube amps are like people ---- > moody. Kemper takes a 'snapshot' of your tone and you stay at that snapshot, a perfect pleasing tone all the time. It may be your best tone, but it is -that- tone all the time. Solid state is similar, but it isn't a copy of your fav tone, its just a tone. But the same where it is like it is ---- > all the time.


    Tube amps change all the time like the weather. They warm up, sound cold, lack something, sometimes sound even beyond what you'd imagine. Then crap again. A constant battle. You try pedals, whatever, to compensate because of the guitar(s) you use, or just to add constant sparkle, etc., then you throw it all out and start from scratch again, fall in love again, a nice clean amp sound playing direct.. Then you have a bad sound day and what to kick that B_tch to the curb, buy a new amp and start again. Sometimes you have many amps, like dating, you just pick one you know will do it for you that day. Unless it sucks and you plug into another. And another. Then try one of them you haven't seen in a while and magic!! Whoa! Why did I want to sell this POS?!?! It's awesome! until tomorrow....

    Same principle as a "57 strat...some were built well, so not so....due to the "hand built" variation, manually wound pickups etc, and yet all "57 strats are considered amazing. Yet a reissue is likely to be superior to most, as well as consistent with the intro of CNC routers, mechanical bobbin winders etc.. ( ok not an exact analogy but I think it works:) )


    Whislt I have no doubt this does exist, I think there is a much bigger variation in our perception than reality though... Some nights I think my Kemper sounds better, even knowing the variables are far fewer...

  • Most of the most vocal group of tne snobs that complain the KPA doesn’t sound like a real amp tend to be super macho metal heads how insist that they need two 412 cabs and a triple rec cranked to get “their” tone. They will tell you which brand of valve to have in each valve placement and which combination of speakers to use when rewiring your cabinet because the way Mesa or Marshalor Soldano build them isn’t quite right.
    They then go on to say they can’t play properly (lack inspiration) if they don’t have “their” sound and masses of air movng. Then brag that all is fine as long as “their” sound if right and they couldn’t care less whether the audience can hear anything but them, whether the sound guy can create a balanced mix - that’s not my problem I sound great and am “inspired”! I don’t care if the band sounds like shit!


    I don’t mean to single out metal players in isolation, there are lots of others with the same affliction but the metal heads seem to be the ones shouting about it on forums.


    As a Metal head ( not sure I can go macho)........I agree :) . I've seen people take 4 4 x12's into a tiny pub gig...cos louder is better right?

  • ... and I too. Plenty-enough variation there IMHO.


    Plus, our strings are on a continuous dive high-frequency-wise.


    Then there're the finger-strength-and-suppleness factors; these things vary from day to day and even during any given day. Scientific tests have shown that on average, for instance, folks' muscles are stronger during the evening than morning. Makes sense, 'cause they've had all day to warm and "toughen" up due to kinetic feedback and activity.


    It goes without saying that the aforementioned factors would affect tone, 'cause we all know that "tone is in the fingers", right?

  • As a Metal head ( not sure I can go macho)........I agree . I've seen people take 4 4 x12's into a tiny pub gig...cos louder is better right?

    More is more.. :D


    External Content www.youtube.com
    Content embedded from external sources will not be displayed without your consent.
    Through the activation of external content, you agree that personal data may be transferred to third party platforms. We have provided more information on this in our privacy policy.

  • Even though the profile never changes, other factors do. The guitar I'm using that day, the condition of the strings, if on stage how far my IEMs are pushed in both my ears and the volume I happen to be monitoring at when practicing. Finally, perhaps the most important, is that I'm not playing the same songs, notes, chords, ect, every time I play. As mentioned, each weekend I'm playing a different combination of songs and I have a few guitars I use, but only one a weekend, since I can't switch between songs. Sometimes you just had a really good rehearsal with other musicians and everything come together easier than other nights. Even during private practice sessions, some days I bring a lull of creativity and other days I'm in my zone. It's likely that the creative mood I'm in (or lack thereof) drives my perception of my tone more than the tone drives my creativity.
    Quite often though, my "meh" feeling about tone begins to occur after I've been listening to some commercial profile demos or browsing gear websites and practicing less.
    Personally, those are enough variables for me to keep things interesting, to not miss the variables of real tubes amps! And when I do have GAS, I can go profile hunting until I come to my senses, without horse-trading gear.

  • Even though the profile never changes, other factors do. The guitar I'm using that day, the condition of the strings, if on stage how far my IEMs are pushed in both my ears and the volume I happen to be monitoring at when practicing. Finally, perhaps the most important, is that I'm not playing the same songs, notes, chords, ect, every time I play. As mentioned, each weekend I'm playing a different combination of songs and I have a few guitars I use, but only one a weekend, since I can't switch between songs. Sometimes you just had a really good rehearsal with other musicians and everything come together easier than other nights. Even during private practice sessions, some days I bring a lull of creativity and other days I'm in my zone. It's likely that the creative mood I'm in (or lack thereof) drives my perception of my tone more than the tone drives my creativity.
    Quite often though, my "meh" feeling about tone begins to occur after I've been listening to some commercial profile demos or browsing gear websites and practicing less.
    Personally, those are enough variables for me to keep things interesting, to not miss the variables of real tubes amps! And when I do have GAS, I can go profile hunting until I come to my senses, without horse-trading gear.

    Same other factors for tube amps. But since the tube amp does not stay stationary like a digital Kemper or solid state amp, it is even more variable.


    Not to say these small variations matter for most, like many have stated, other factors make it better, such as size and weight, reliability, etc.. You can't be a tube amp (or solid state) for ease of use. There is nothing easier to turn just a few knobs, the limitations are a gift at times, forcing you to be more creative with what little you have to change. But the heavy beasts are a pain to get around. I don't miss my 300 lbs+ rack system! Anyway, my point was just to address the 'what is missing' issue. That one variable, imperfection, is what it is and I can't see it as ever being captured so whatever....

  • macho hurts my feelings :thumbup: In all seriousness to those that think you cannot get a 4x12 massive punch of air from the kemper.. you need to listen to when I plug in both my mission stereo cabs, each one is a 2x12 and automatically senses the master slave configuration when both get plugged in...


    It then becomes a 4x12 STEREO punch in the face and wait for it, it's active so not even a power head..,
    You want a 4x12?
    You can't handle a 4x12!


    :D


    Ash

    Have a beer and don't sneer. -CJ. Two non powered Kempers -Two mission stereo FRFR Cabs - Ditto X4 -TC electronic Mimiq.

    Edited 4 times, last by ashtweth ().

  • With the new reverbs being finished up and more being added, and the overdrives being overhauled and added to on the horizon, that last 5 percent is getting closer to that 1 percent and if 1 percent will make you lose sleep at night... well then goodnight! :D