So I've Had My Kemper Next To My AX8 For Several Days Now, Need Advice

    Quote from V8guitar

    We ARE the nicest forum

    Yeah V8, we even give of ourselves in the face of being treated like apes and with no thanks. MG mistook a friendly welcoming gesture I made when he first joined as some sort of a dig at him (went over my head and left me speechless). I can only hope he knows by now that I mean no harm (ever!), and only do my best to be of service, as so many here do.


    At this point I'm seriously stoked that he's happy he's managed to get to the bottom of it. As you say, it's a subtle thing, but like so many things of this nature, time is the ingredient that exposes "flaws". I could've given many more examples of this phenomenon in that post - another obvious one being early CD pressings (late '80s) and low-quality MP3's. I remember when CD's first hit the market that before too long folks noticed that the extended LP-listening sessions they enjoyed after returning home from work became severely-truncated. Little wonder - the "harsh", "unnatural" numbers generated in those days in the upper frequencies by CD's and indeed the players' D/A convertors would hardly have been "elegant" numerical fodder for the brain.

    Quote from Monkey_Man

    ... I can only hope he knows by now that I mean no harm (ever!), and only do my best to be of service, as so many here do.

    But you look very intimidating for those who know that Lb for LB you're the strongest beast in the jungle. The shades are Kool and might put some at ease, but no one wants to see you angry :D

    Just an observation from someone who has used various amps sims etc for 2 decades now. The one thing that sets the Kemper apart for myself and this is purely my experience is that. With the Kemper, I am far more aware of of my guitar choices and string selection. I have a style of my own for good or for worse, when I comes to guitar playing and previously, I could achieve most of what I was after with pretty much, any guitar I chose to use on any given day until I bought a Kemper. With the Kemper I have become acutely aware of "That part needs a Tele/Strat/Les Pau/Etc whereas previously, I had always been able to mug it using often guitars that are in themselves somewhat generic in tone. I even went so far as to trader in my "Pointy Headstock Strat Style guitar, for a Telecaster because for me, good as it was, it was exposed by the Kemper as being, great as an all rounder however, really only shining as a box of lead tricks and as, lead is not truly my forte, it became relegated to the "not quite there category".


    I used to be somewhat wary of those gear nerd articles in which some guitarist would talk about how many amps they dragged into the studio and how many guitars they went through to achieve a certain tone. It struck me that, there was a certain degree of; "Well, I have the budget and the amps on tap so why not try them all and that, one can become lost when that old amp you used for years did it all. That is, one becomes almost pampered above a certain level and maybe, we lose some focus on what we really were all about in the first place?


    I should point out that, I am not a typical "Hi-gain" type of player, my guitar sounds are drawn from a wide palate the song dictating the sound rather than my songs being written from a certain sort of sound. That's where the Kemper hits the mark for me. Each of my guitars unique voicing is now totally apparent and I'm now far more critical of what strings with what guitar I use. In short, my experience is now akin to that of many guitarists who unlike most of us, had the opportunity to try any number of amp and cab combos when recording.


    The other thing I've noticed with the Kemper is that, layering is far easier, the different profiles don't tread on each other's feet sonically as it were, in the same way that other units have done. I've had 5 years with my Kemper now and my experience is that, the biggest problem I have these days are my now cack handed efforts at guitar playing, not the "amp(s) and guitars I'm using.

    Superb observations IMHO, Steve!


    I used to be able to get away with a $100 single-coil Squire Strat with my old PODs and HD500. As soon as I tried it with the Kemper, it sounded absolutely-crap (thin and even noisy for the first time); I was stunned at just how bad it was.


    In walked my brother with his vintage LP and and it was a different world, and the same went for other high-quality guitars that've been plugged in.


    I agree about the layering thing too, and IMHO it's a result of that numbers thing I keep banging on about. The "simple" (by comparison to the "real thing") algorithms (and therefore resulting tones) created by the programmers of modellers must in some way, I assume from my experiences, double up on certain frequencies and characteristics, making layering of multiple parts trickier in terms of achieving distinct separation than in the cases of the Kemper and multiple tube amps. Again, I put it down to the complex, varying, "natural" numbers involved in the latter two options; there's just bound to be more-detailed variation, some of it subtle and some of it not, due to the use of real-world components to achieve tone.


    At any rate, great observations IMHO, mate!

    As the owner of both, here is my two cents. If you are after the closest match to an amp in sound and feel, keep the Kemper. You can play the amp and then your profile of the amp and hear how close it is. While with the Axe while you may have cleans you prefer, there is no way to know how it compares to the actual amp. And the fact that the sound can dramatically vary from firmware to firmware is puzzling - either it sounds like the amp they are basing the sound on or it doesn’t. Or their reference amps change sounds a lot!


    For effects the Axe is personally better. And I like the Fractal foot controller, the ease of scenes to change sounds and the editor. This could change with new reverbs but I have my doubts that Kemper is able to deliver them in the current hardware. The lack of an editor is also really annoying (to me).


    In terms of the community, while we have our differences, I appreciate members reaching out and sorting things out. It is a pretty unique community! Thanks @Dean_R


    If I had to choose one for me, it would be the Kemper with a few pedals to make up for the effects.

    Edited once, last by SwAn1 ().

    Like 4

    If you need those super clean FX, pick up a Line 6 M5 or a used M9 and stick it in the loop. IMO, those effects are definitely "cleaner" than the built in Kemper FX.


    That said, I prefer the Kemper effects for most day to day tasks, or I'll put an actual analog effect in the loop.


    Those older Line6 units were the discussion of many flame throwing arguments until the Helix came out. Now all of a sudden nobody cares. They still sound fine, and are cheap on the used market.

    Well, as previously stated, I'm not going to declare a clear winner in any aspect. I can only give my account of what I've observed. I own a Friedman BE-100, so after spending many hours between my Kemper, AX8, and BE-100, I have to say -- to my surprise -- that the AX8 is most accurate in tone and feel... at least with the dozen or so BE-100 profiles I've tried. Keep in mind I'm judging this by the audible sound of playing through studio monitors, powered speakers, and a portable PA. When recorded directly, where both units sound best, they are both very true to the sound, but you can still hear a little more smoothness and softness from the Kemper.


    I plan to profile my own BE-100 very soon, so I'll post the results of that along with the profile files. For now, I still cannot confidently decide which to let go although my preference has slightly shifted towards the Kemper. I've recently discovered that I get ear fatigue from certain patches on the AX8, but it turned out to be the cabs that were causing the problem. I downloaded some new IRs and used them on the same profile, and it solved that problem. I wish I would have discovered that before my last write-up, but oh well.

    Quote from audiomitch

    If you need those super clean FX, pick up a Line 6 M5 or a used M9 and stick it in the loop. IMO, those effects are definitely "cleaner" than the built in Kemper FX.


    That said, I prefer the Kemper effects for most day to day tasks, or I'll put an actual analog effect in the loop.


    Those older Line6 units were the discussion of many flame throwing arguments until the Helix came out. Now all of a sudden nobody cares. They still sound fine, and are cheap on the used market.

    I have a full pedalboard of Strymon effects which I use for my tube amps. However, I used to own a Line6 M9 and thought it was outstanding for the money. BOSS recently came out with the MS-3, and having used the DD-500 and RV-500 before, it sounds like it's worth a try.

    Cabs' principle action is to filter high frequencies. The extent to which they do it varies wildly, as you'd know, MG, which could explain why some allow you to listen for extended periods and others don't.


    The early-days CD effect I mentioned earlier, along with the bad-mp3 one, demonstrate that the "harsh", "bad-numbers" seem to be most-present, or at least most-annoying to the brain, in the HF areas.


    It's academic at this point, but IMHO being armed with this "knowledge" can't hurt when making future cab choices. IMHO, the Kemper should, according to this paradigm, logically be more-forgiving in this regard.

    I'm not sure I buy the ear fatigue argument.


    I experienced a lot of ear fatigue when using my tube amp with a Suhr Reactive Load and a Torpedo CAB (for IRs). Also got a lot of (to a lesser degree) ear fatigue with my old Axe FX II. I can't say I've had much, if any, ear fatigue from the Kemper. It's safe to say that, from my experience, even tube amps can cause ear fatigue, it's not limited to digital modelling.


    I'm sure that there are reasons I've not had it with the Kemper - lack of time spent playing it. Had it only a few weeks. Not spent a long time on loud. Not spent a long time with headphones. Many reasons, but highly doubt that it "being more natural" have much to do with it.


    Sorry, hope that doesn't come across too negatively. Just trying to offer up a reasonable argument that tube amps can definitely cause ear fatigue.

    I didn't take it that way, so no worries. It's not that I'm trying to sell anyone an argument about ear fatigue, it's just that when I initially evaluated the units, I could not figure out what appealed to me about the Kemper. As explained, I think overall I like the AX8 more in tone, feel, and features, but tended to get ear fatigue after a playing for a while. I realized that I never get that from the Kemper. Once I identified it, then I searched for why and found that it had everything to do with the IRs/cabs. Without changing any of the setting and only swapping to new cabs I downloaded, those particular patches no longer grated on my ears.


    The Uberschall patch was one of them. I recorded the Tornado of Souls solo as a test. It did not sound great, and the high end was harsh. As soon as I loaded a 3rd party Bogner Uber cab, it was great. That's why my AX8 hasn't gone anywhere because I've gotten rid of the problem. Now it's just a matter of selling something else so I can keep both my Kemper and AX8.

    Well anyway, I couldn't part with my AX8 or Kemper, so I'm keeping both. They're both just so good. Really enjoying the Little Walter, Valvetech, and especially the TAF - Golden Arm Push rig - makes me want to own a Goldfinger 90 again!

    Hi. I really like your opinions in the subject.

    Going through the same trouble/quest as well.


    By about a month ago I bought myself a Toaster Kemper ( i used to own a rack version with the remote ), Had the Ax8 already ( the reason why I sold my whole Kemper rack 4 space gator case and furman, kemper remote and mission pedal, the whole pack. Ax8 seemed more of a portable solution, But for some reason I was and have not been happy with the Cleans or those edge of breakup tones I was getting from the Ax8.


    I remembered my kemper sounding and feeling a lot more like a real tube amp thru my Friedman Asm-12. Specially Tonejunkie profiles and worship performances by Joseph Wu and GuitarforHisglory.


    Anyhow, got myself a toaster and I love it, love the real feel, and having much more fun and actually "playing my guitar" instead of tweaking and searching for the right effects chain on the Ax8's grid.


    I was thinking in using the Ax8 as a midi controller for the Kemper and running the Kemper into teh Ax8's loop, which I did. But Just the Kemper by itself souds great.


    NoW, this is my observation and I apologize for all the previous talking ...


    To my ears the Kemper is wonderful in cleans, edge of breakup and ambient tones.

    The Ax8 is great at High Gain stuff.


    Kemper profiles of High Gain sound very stiff. Ax8's High Gain presets have this openness to them and thump as a real amp and cab, although Fractal sounds and feels like a recorded version of the amp. Kemper sounds and feels like the amp and cab themselves.


    I dont know what to do. Because I have my Eventide Space reverb on the kemper's loop and it beats Fractal's reverbs and ambient. Kemper delays are superb.

    But Kemper drives are not that great. With the Ax8 I hace cloned already some overdrives I'll use.


    Kemper into Fractal Ax8 loop sounds good.


    I wonder how Fractal into Kemper's loop would sound. Anyone have done this ??


    take care.


    PS: still dont know what to do, keep Ax8 and use it as a midi controller for Kemper and use some of its effects?

    Sell Ax8 and get a Kemper remote, one or two overdrive pedals ?


    God Bless.

    Edited once, last by javcab08 ().

    I'm surprised you can't find good high gain sounds and it might depend on what you are playing through....can you not profile some of the AX8 gain sounds?


    I assume you've tried some of the diezel, ENGL and Mesa profiles?