Profiling Advice Not Found In The Manual

    I've been profiling a lot lately. I started with a Friedman BE-100 which came out good the first time, even better the second time. I think the reason I had success is because I read the manual, watched several videos, and read a lot on this forum. There were also things I noticed about using different guitars, speakers, pickups -- and how it all compared to all the commercial and rig-exchange profiles.


    One of my main complaints about a lot of profiles is that they seem to be done in a way which is geared towards the profiler's personal preference. That's completely understandable. I mean, after all, one of the greatest benefits to having a Kemper is the fact that you can profile all of your amps and not have to carry them all around. However, they don't always translate to what I'd consider neutral enough profiles to be more generally useful. Maybe with more experience I'll think differently, but at this point, I'm really enjoying only handful of direct profile packages and my own profiles.


    Set a certain way and with certain pickups, mic position, and volume, there seems to be more flexibility in how much you can change things like gain and EQ without losing something in the tone. For example, there are some great clean profiles loaded at the factory and on Rig Exchange, but a lot of them seem to go to crap once you raise the gain past a very short range. I couldn't find a Hiwatt profile that I thought was good enough until I finally downloaded a commercial Hiwatt set, and that was so much better. It allowed more tweaking to the profile. Some profiles have a crappy low end that aren't like the real amps, and some lack the low end that the original amps have. Those kinds of things are a point of frustration for me.


    Another thing I noticed is the volume at which profiles are made. Some seem to be done at very high volume and others seem to be done at lower volume. In the profiles that I've been doing seem to be best at a moderate volume level, a little bit above the point where it gives you an error message that there's not a loud enough signal. When I try to record with a loud amp, no matter how mic placement goes, it seems to feel less dynamic and sounds a bit dryer. Even if you fiddle with settings like tube and pick, it doesn't quite do it. Maybe that's just my perception but I've noticed that.


    Anyway, the point is that I'd like to hear some tips for profiling that you learn through a lot of experience and how you can maximize the authenticity in tone and feel - as well as the tweakability of the profiled settings.

    On that note, when I find a clean profile that I like and want to add a little grit to it, it usually doesn't sound good. However, some profiles of the same amp work better than others.

    Quote from MistaGuitah

    When I try to record with a loud amp, no matter how mic placement goes, it seems to feel less dynamic and sounds a bit dryer. Even if you fiddle with settings like tube and pick, it doesn't quite do it. Maybe that's just my perception but I've noticed that.

    Great observation IMHO, MG.


    My guess is that the natural amp compression comes into it more when you Profile at higher levels; that would explain the less-dynamic outcome.


    As for sounding drier, I reckon that just as it is with close-mic'ing any acoustic source, generally-speaking, the louder the source, the less of the room's signature is captured. IOW, it's a relative-level thing.


    Could be wrong of course, but your observations immediately brought these factors to mind.

    Thanks for the confirmation. At least I know that I'm hearing things more or less right. The compression would seem to explain a lot too about loud profiling. Some amps like Metropoulos can be pretty loud and gainy and not compress as much as my BE-100, so I'd imagine those would have better results profiling at louder volumes.


    A question though... I was reading the manual and it said to play lots of chords as that's what's needed to capture the distortion characteristics and dynamic response. When profiling, used the same sequence of bar chords and a little more complex chord shapes up and down the neck. I don't know if that helps, but it would seem to be better than just strumming chords at the 1st and 3rd frets. My question is though, should I be doing some palm muting between chords or something? Would that help enhance the percussive response or something?

    Well, in days gone by it seemed to be best practice to try to hit it with everything, so to speak, so your palm-muting idea would've had utility for sure, MG.


    These days however, since, I think, about 2 years ago, Kemper says that the refinement process is much-less critical, even to the extent that in the majority of cases it shouldn't even be necessary. I haven't checked to see if what the manual says has changed 'though; this is just what I've read on the board, and many would be able to confirm this.


    All that said, and I think you'll likely agree with this, I don't think it could possibly do any harm to stick with your M.O. for now, and yeah, I'd hit it with those palm mutes for good measure. You'll be able to tell just how much each refinement "session" affects the sound and playability of the Profile at hand; based on what I said earlier 'though, my guess is that such changes aren't as marked as they used to be. This can't be a bad thing when you think about it 'cause it suggests the unit has become more-deft at capturing the soul of amps sans the extra "work".


    I must say it's great to see that you've gotten straight into Profiling, MG. So many here, including myself, either don't have amps to Profile or simply couldn't be bothered, but from what I can tell those folks who take the time to do so end up learning a heckuva-lot more about the quirks and subtleties of the unit. As a bonus they also get to retain sounds they've worked towards for many years in some cases (like yours?).

    In my experience so far, refining is majorly important.
    It’s what takes it from “pretty close” to almost indistinguishable.


    Someone (was it tone junkies?) did a good YouTube video about how turning up the input gain on the Kemper does not behave like turning up the gain on the profiles real amp.
    If you want that sound you need to profile It at the higher gain.
    I agree it behaves much ‘better’ (more usefully and more realistically) when you turn the gain DOWN on a loud profile and not try to turn the gain UP

    Here's a ToneJunkie YouTube link that may be useful -


    "How we make Kemper Profiles!!!"


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    Quote from wwittman

    In my experience so far, refining is majorly important.
    It’s what takes it from “pretty close” to almost indistinguishable.

    That's interesting, William; this is how things have traditionally been.


    You've got me wondering now how much more-accurate the initial Profiling is these days when compared to the time before Kemper said that refining is no longer necessary in many cases.


    Quote from wwittman

    I agree it behaves much ‘better’ (more usefully and more realistically) when you turn the gain DOWN on a loud profile and not try to turn the gain UP

    This has always been the case with the KPA. I reckon it's because all "levels" up to and including the current gain setting are effectively captured during Profiling; it's never made sense to expect that an extrapolation beyond that could be accurate given the hugely-variable responses and behaviour of all the amps out there.

    Exactly. If one thinks about it, it makes perfect sense.
    I’m sure that turning down the gain also behaves not exactly the same as lowering the gain on the actual amp being profiled, but it’s a lot MORE like it.