The KPA's foundational amp/distortion model

    Quote from Radley

    I really hope the Kemper team will continue to hone this foundational centerpiece, as it effects every overdriven sound which emanates from this magic box - this becomes more apparent as the gain is increased.


    I hope they don't. Actually I think the KPA is the first modeller without any trademark sound. Maybe it could need a tad more low end while profiling. But you can fix that with the Bass Poti after profiling.


    Quote from Guitartone

    And, a Squier is a better guitar than a Tom Anderson.


    Dude,... I have one very excellent Squier Classic Vibe I wouldn't ever trade for any custom shop guitar in the world... :D:D

    MJT Strats / PRS Guitars / Many DIY Guitars -- Kemper Profiler Rack / Kemper Remote / InEar

    The KPA can be improved, but it's still far ahead of the competition on it's distortion, don't look at it from the perspective of how the gain dial works, look at it from how it sounds full stop (or if you do look at it from the perspective of the gain dial then rename the thread to "The KPA's Gain Dial behavior" instead, because it's not the same thing).


    The "distortion model" is taken from the amp that's profiled, it sounds like the amp (though I do believe it could be improved and I hope Kemper will continue to work on this making a better product). If you adjust the gain with different profiles you'll find many different characteristics, if you do some profiling yourself of a real amp you'll see what works and where, and just how close it is to a real amp.


    What I'd like to see is the ability to blend profiles, especially to be able to profile the amp at a couple of gain settings and then having the KPA work out a more accurate gain dial characteristic from that. If you try to add gain to a very low gain amp then the result right now is harsh because the distortion also is going to include things like noise floor, also low gain sound naturally tends to have dramatically increased dynamics, or to put it another way the curve between input and output values is non-linear and can be quite extreme on attack. More or less the distortion it hears may not all be overdrive and so it'll accentuate some quite harsh effects. If you could give it examples of at least two positions on the gain dial then I suspect the Kemper would be able to give youa much more accurate result.


    Where I find the KPA is let down is twofold, first in the matching process that I feel it needs a "dynamics" matching and then a "hard" matching pass, as I find that playing with extreme dynamics results in a profile that's very accurate to the amp when rolling back the volume on the guitar, but not so great at full whack, and refining with harder notes and chords sacrifices the sensitivity curve for an accurate sound the rest of the time.


    The second is in it's ability to profile the sound of the mic at a further distance from the cab. This though is tougher to resolve, I hope that Kemper will find a way to do this or at least emulate/set a parameter for it as I like the liveliness this gives with a real amp.

    Quote from mDan

    I hope they don't. Actually I think the KPA is the first modeller without any trademark sound. Maybe it could need a tad more low end while profiling. But you can fix that with the Bass Poti after profiling.



    Dude,... I have one very excellent Squier Classic Vibe I wouldn't ever trade for any custom shop guitar in the world... :D :D

    I agree, there are some magical Squier's out there, it happens with guitars, sometimes you just find a cheapie that is full of magic. :D

    Quote from Radley

    Every day I learn more about my Kemper - At this point I feel the KPA's foundational amp/distortion model is letting the whole platform down, as it is not warm or analog enough to be the master 'virtual tube amp' - I really hope the Kemper team will continue to hone this foundational centerpiece, as it effects every overdriven sound which emanates from this magic box - this becomes more apparent as the gain is increased. The KPA's frequency matching is *very* accurate, but the Amp engine does not distort in the same 'warm, friendly' way a tube amp does - IMHO that's why it can sound so similar, while feeling rather 'rigid'.


    My 2¢ - Let the flames begin.

    The way to make the KPA really shine is to profile the amp at all desired positions. Then it is indistinguishable in the mix. Admittedly this isn't possible for amps you don't own yourself, but I personally bought it to profile my own amps, and it is a practically flawless stand-in for me.

    Radley you don't comment on my lead guitar sound. I really think the best way to argue this would be to lay down a lead using both the amp and then the profile. If they sound the same then comments like "Kemper lead isn't amp like" is all in ones head. If they do soun different then there is validity. But I think you just are used to that processed sound.


    I am gonna do this experiment.

    Quote from Guitartone

    You prefer Boss COSM & Pod XT distortion to the Kemper, fair enough...but don't expect Mr Kemper to redesign his distortion engine to sound more like the distortions you prefer.


    I hope Mr.Kemper will ignore this kind of sound taste all together ;)
    Cheers,

    There is no such thing as some mysterious Master Amp Model.




    The Kemper captures a rig AS IS, WYHIWYG (what you hear is what you get).




    The profile might sound bad if it was captured with poor quality devices or wrong settings, but then the same tone that the profiler got from the real thing is also bad - don't forget the A/B possibility right after profiling/refining.




    Also, please, accept the fact, that a profile = a snapshot of the CURRENT rig with the CURRENT settings and CURRENT everything. It means that it's virtually untweakable in a linear way later on. This doesn't mean that you can't correct some problems with EQing or some other pre- or post amp block effects, but this means that all of these changes will be unlinear, and therefore will differ from the original amp. Imagine this - you profile a given rig situation with the KPA, then you change the mid knob on the real amp. You also change the mid knob on the KPA profile, but the results of course won't be the same because the tone stack is not modeled or captured or anything. This is an upcoming feature of the KPA as far as I know.
    My 3 cents.

    Use your ears, not your mathematical sense.

    Amen :thumbup:

    Hi Radley,


    I've had good experiences obtaining smooth, high gain lead tones with the KPA, more so than with my AxeFX II. Obviously results may vary greatly depending on Amp, Bac, Mic used etc.. It's also worth noting that I'm using other peoples profiles and not mine. I guess results may be different if you are creating a smooth, high gain lead tone on an amp and then mic'ing it up and profiling it. I presume that's what you are talking about?


    I do think that the KPA can and will be improved in future versions, for me there is something missing in the lower-mids when profiling, for me it's not a deal breaker, it's more like being hypercritical to make the product better


    Spence

    The thing I like about the Kemper over others that I have owned is that it sounds like real guitar tracks,This morning I was listening to Physical Graffiti, the tones on that record are very raw and raspy. It is not a smooth sound.
    Very little of the music i listen to has ultra smooth guitar tones, I like a classic rock tones more traditional rock tones.
    For me the Kemper nails it.

    There has been some discussion whether or Not the Kemper can reproduce Amp like Lead sounds. We can talk all day but best to do an example and see what we get.


    I profiled my amp again from scratch, this time only using 1 mic. Not really going for the best sound or certainly a memorable lead. Short and quick so both stay fresh in your mind. One of these is the amp, one is the kemper with no refining or adjusting inside kemper. What you hear is what you get so to speak. I could further eq or change if I wanted to...


    Please cast a vote which you think is the amp and which is the kemper, and state inside here. If you feel its close please state that also. Please vote without trying to use psychology, like well I made this one louder cause I want it to sound better, or whatever, I threw this together during a busy day, so please just vote and say opinions :) thank you for participating..


    http://www.energiestudios.com/Files/...ead%20Test.wav

    Thanks for fixing link! I did this quickly cause the premise is: can the Kemper reproduce amp like lead tones. One is an amp one is Kemper If they are close enough then the answer is yes. Kemper can reproduce amp like lead tones. Whether or not one likes this particulair sound is besides the point.


    This is a testable experiment. It's possible someone may prefer a certain moddellers sound over a real amp or another moddeller. But if the question comes down to if Kemper is amp like, then it's an easy test to see.

    Well the first one's got a bit more definition IMHO. The second sounds like a mic was moved slightly off-axis (nasally), and the dynamics might be a touch stiffer.


    [edit] after posting, try opening the file up and visually comparing the two waveforms. Instructive! The dynamics are indeed quite different, although the EQ curves are very close as you might expect.


    -djh

    Edited once, last by dhodgson ().