I'm at a point where I'm kinda confused and frustrated with my tones and I need your help to sort things out

Howdy!

As the title states I'm confused and I'm really, really frustrated and I'm asking you to help me sort things out. Thing is, I'm way to audiophile, respectively I got those "dog ears" if you know what I mean. What sounds great at first is not a blessing but a course when it comes down to be satisfied with a tone. If I wanted (and sometimes also if I don't want to!) I can listen to a loop until the very point where I just hear a annoying pick noise and interfering frequencies but almost no amp at all.
Of course you just give your ears some break and start over again and of course this works for a certain amount of time.

This was just to explain how my ears work and I don't need advise with that. What I need advise with is the following. Due to me being able to focus on things I hate I'm not satisfied with most of the profiles on rig exchange and also most of the profiles I bought are not that good sounding to me until I tweak and tweak and tweak and tweak.
I think most profiles got way to much low end and without cutting them around 8 kHz the are to fizzy while the mids seem to be scooped.
Yeah, I don't play metal and maybe my guitars doesn't even Djent. With some changes in cabs some of them get better but the don't go where I really want them to be.

I'm need four basic sounds to play my music. I need a vintage clean tone, a vintage crunch tone I use to play open chords with a slightly distorted amp and I need a vintage distorted sound for country punk/ punk/ punk 'n' roll plus a vintage fuzz.
What is vintage? Well, there we go ... I'm into Social Distortion and bands like that and I'm of course also totally into everything that sounds a little like the Stones etc. What I think is a vintage tone is maybe a tone with over-pronounced mids, not that much low end and not that much treble. I cut around 85 to 95 Hz and around 6500 to 8500 Hz.

Always and really always there is something that bugs me. Playing without a capo with the slightly overdriven/ distorted amps and open chords often leads to some sparkling way to bright tones at the high end that I hate but most often cannot get rid of. Playing with a capo often tames things a bit but that's not what I want. I want my tones to be killer without cheating. The distorted and fuzzy sounds work most of the time but there is often to much pick noise (I of course know the pick parameter but that's not what I mean/ hear). Vintage clean tones work more or less. That's ok.

So what I did was taking the profiles I like best and send them through my DAW, EQ'ed them again and reprofiled them with a second Kemper.
I thought it would be ok. Still not perfect but ok.
The last two weeks I was on holidays - I got my ears a huge break so to speak. On holiday I read about the the Helix and they got me curious. So I downloaded Helix Native as a trail and tried dialing in a slightly distorted tone for my open chords. I used the DAW to compare that to my Kemper's sound and now I hate both of them. The Helix doesn't feel that real to me while I like the sound a little better as what I got out of my Kemper right now. My Kemper's tone sounds almost unreal or whatever to me. And I'm so confused.

Thing is: Since a tweaked, tweaked and tweaked my Kemper's tones that much and even reprofiled some of them as I said I'm not even sure if all this still has anything to do with a real amp.

How to overcome that? How can I trust in my ears and tones again? Have you been where I am right now?

Don't get me wrong. This is in no way a Kemper vs. Helix kinda thing. Not at all. I was never completely satisfied with my guitar tone and right now I feel like I have hit a dead end.

Thanks in advance, dudes!
Cheers

Quote from Kempermaniac

How do you monitor? With your two Palmer cabs or FRFR or headphone? That's important to know.

I monitor with various headphones (880 Pros, 990 Pros and some others), studio monitors, a DXR10, our rehearsal room PA and I also got a fine pair of custom InEars by UltimateEars. I don't use the cabs to monitor, this would make no sense to me.

I EQ'ed the sh't out of it. I sometimes waste three slots for EQs (which is another reason to reprofile them with a second Kemper, so I can free up those slots). My question is not only about the sounds itself. This is about how I can trust my sounds again? How will I know if I'm even still somewhere a regular amp could sound and things like that. Everytime I'm looking for videos about Amps or for reviews of profiles or amps or even of the profiles themselves: metal. Metal everywhere.

Quote from Ibot39

In your case I would say: Buy, borrow, hire a REAL tube amp. Set it up to your liking and make your own profiles. If you have problems with micing technics - consult someone with the knowledge.

I right now don't got the money but I really think about borrowing one. Making own profiles is also problematic since I don't got the right room and not the best pre-amps, mics etc. - I think that commercial profiles should be better in theory.

Quote from sambrox

And don’t worry about whether they sound real or not. If you’re happy with the tone, then that’s YOUR tone. Doesn’t matter if it sounds “real”.

Thank you so much. I even often said that to others! Somehow I totally lost faith in my tones. Can't really tell you why. I think it is because most profiles sound so very different to what I like.

Quote from sercho

Do you actually like regular amps sounds?

If so, just find an amp you really like and try to profile its sweet spots... This is what I would try to do if I was in your situation.

Anyway, have you tried these profiles?

Old and Forgotten amp profiles

IMHO @Oraakkeli did a great job here capturing some truly vintage raw tones!

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I will try those. Thanks! That's the thing. I never owned a really versatile and/ or good tube amp. I just had a simple TH 30 Combo and a small pedal board and it was kinda cool but I also didn't really know how it sounded mik'ed - I just remember the amp's sound. I think I didn't like the mik'ed sound a lot but didn't think so much about it back in the days.

Quote from sercho

Do you actually like regular amps sounds?

To be honest, I don't know but I don't think so. I always tend to like a mixed and EQ'ed and maybe doubled guitar track a lot more. Maybe that's why I also like the really sterile Helix at least a little. Then again it doesn't feel right when it is too sterile. Vicious circle ...

I i. e. hear a video with a mik'ed amp and a cool pedal in front of it (like the Beetronics Beehive etc.) and I think yeah, that's it that's the sound I want to have. Or just listening to profiles on Soundcloud etc. ... And then I got those profiles and then there is undefined rumbling in the low end going on or the pick is over pronounced or there is something strange in the high mids or above going on and I never really can get rid of everything I don't like. So I tweak and tweak and I think it has gotten better. And then listening to it again the next day I again will find something I hate.

Quote from drog

Tweaking can take you down a rabbit hole, you will end up doing that forever. My suggestion would be to listen to your guitar in a band context and not on its own. See how it sits in the mix.

Find a profile you like the sound of the first time and leave it as is. As tempting as it might be to tweak it, do not. Just leave it for a month a use it with the band and get some mileage out of it. Record with the band and see how it's sitting in the mix. Only adjust the front knobs bass/ mid/high , overall volume, clean sense, if needed but nothing else.

Then if you still don't like it, go find another profile. Rinse and repeat but do not tweak. So many people are no used to hearing the mic'd guitar sound alone. Also I would recommend shutting off pure cab.

I at least keep that in mind. Not being allowed to tweak my precious Kemper sounds like hell on earth to me. But in fact I think you are right. I'm also totally aware that it is about the guitar in context but I need to at least like what I here when playing alone. Otherwise I can't focus since I'm still listening for that stuff that bugs me. That this is a mic'ed sound and not a amp/ cab in a room sound is totally clear.

Would you please explain why you'd recommend shutting of pure cab? I heard some saying to leave it of and others stating that it is so much better when on. To me it seems that with pure cab above 3 - 4 I at least can get rid of some of the things that I don't like going on at the low and high end.

Quote from Tyrone_Biggums

My advice may be totally worthless, but in my experience, if I am unhappy with my setup, having someone else play through it (someone that is a much better player than I am) has reset my thought process. Not saying your playing ability is sub par. I just know the tweaking rabbit hole is reallllly deep.

So you basically saying my playing is sub par, huh? Just kiddin' Actually I don't think this is worthless at all. I think I will try that and maybe have this person loop something or play for a while so that I can tweak a little with the other one playing my setup.

Quote from Atlantic

The problem is not your tones nor your ears. The problem is how you manage the eternal dissatisfaction inherent to human beings.

We always want what we don´t have. And you focus in the guitar tone as other people focus in other things.

My advice would be:

- Think that perfection as happiness is an illusion and/or just brief. It does not exist. So aim to 85% of your "perfect tone target" and it will be good enough.
- Just focus on playing and writing music. That is an infinite task and you will keep your brain happy and working. If you focus on guitar tone, once you think it´s over and that you have it, your brain will try to find some way to keep working by finding imperfections.

There are many ways of enjoy guitar. Some listen to it, others even play it. Some like to trade them ad infinitum and are always looking in Reverb.com, ebay, craiglist ot whatever...

You seem to spend more time in the search of the tone and it´s not working for you, because you think it should have an end and it doesn´t.

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Man! This is just awesome. This may be the best advise I've gotten in the last few years (not only according to guitar but at all). Honestly. I tend to overthink, yes, I want things to be "perfect" after I'm done with them whatever that means and I tend to feel the urge to finish things as best and as efficient as possible. And yes, that often interferes with happiness, since I of course know that there are on the one hand things that I can't control and on the other hand things that can't be perfect or that I can't make perfect due to simple facts or due to a lack of something (ability, technology, money or whatsoever).
While playing and tweaking, however, that never crossed my mind. Maybe also since so many praise the Kemper as being perfect and for me it never was. But neither was any other piece of gear I've ever gotten. And that's not about the Kemper. I don't want to say that it isn't perfect, I can see that what I want maybe just isn't always possible or possible right now. Or the other way around, if I got what I thought is perfect, there comes the need for getting even more out of it. This is what you said, I think. We want what we don't have. I thank you, man! Get yourself some ice cold beer or something!