I'm at a point where I'm kinda confused and frustrated with my tones and I need your help to sort things out

    Hello 10w73,
    I see that you are playing a 2014 Gibson Melodymaker among others!? I have a 2015 Les Paul special doublecut, (obvious) with the same p90s.
    I play my Kemper with custom made UE InEars too. With my Gibson I had similar difficulties to find a good sound, until I changed the P90s with a pair of Pickups from Bare Knuckles. (In my case, the „supermassive“, a more modern sounding pair).
    What a difference it is! The guitar now sounds „right“ with the same kind of rigs, without much tweaking.


    Maybe that‘s another point to think about?


    Regards
    Dirk

    _________________________________________________________________________________________________________________


    Manson DR1 Matthew Bellamy Signature Guitar, Music Man Axis Sport, Fender Nashville Deluxe Tele, Fender 52 American Vintage Reissue Tele 2011, Fender 69 American Vintage Reissue Thinline Tele 2011, Gibson 2015 Les Paul Special doublecut, Gibson Les Paul Junior DC, Epiphone Wilshire Phant-o-matic Frank Iero Signature, LTD 8-String Guitar, tbc. ;)

    Like 1
    Quote from Atlantic

    The problem is not your tones nor your ears. The problem is how you manage the eternal dissatisfaction inherent to human beings.


    We always want what we don´t have. And you focus in the guitar tone as other people focus in other things.

    This x 1,000 !


    If it's any consolation, you are not alone!!!


    There is some great advice in this thread already. Here's my tuppenceworth:


    I also seriously considered the Helix but ended up going Kemper for the simple reasons that it felt more like my real amps "to me" AND I perceived it to have less tweakability so I was less likely to end up down the Rabbit Hole. The truth is they are both awesome units and I would probably have been equally happy/unhappy with either. As it turns out the Kemper is WAY more tweakable than I realised. However, I force myself to treat it like a real amp for the sake of my sanity:



    Quote from SQUAREHEAD

    Let me explain, I have played old Marshall amplifiers For the last 30 years and they have six knobs... three of which do very little, so once you have a good tone, you don’t search any further, it is what it is and you make do with the best you can get out of those six controls…


    I rarely change anything on a profile now. If it doesn't sound good enough to use immediately I just go for another profile. Even that can be a rabbit hole as rig exchange has 14,000 profiles before you even think about buying commercial profiles. However, I try to limit myself to no more than 5 minutes choosing a profile then get on with playing/practicing/writing or whatever my initial reason for sitting down with a guitar was in the first place.


    Although there are loads of great free and commercial profiles out there I tend to find that the best and most effective way for me to be satisfied is just to fire up one of my real amps and profile it. The result is so close to the real thing that I know I have the sound I was chasing and can just relax and play. You mentioned that you don't have expensive mics, preamps or a great sounding room. None of this should matter - particularly for your genres. Most of the old school classic punk and rock style sounds were probably just a cheap SM57 anyway. Great preamps can ovbiously add little sprinkling of fairy dust but you can still get great profiles just plugging a SM57 straight into the back of the Kemper. As for the room. My understanding is that the room makes very little difference to the profiles. It's not like a real recording where the time based detail (reverb) of the room affects the sound. If I understand correctly the Kemper doesn't capture any of this so as long as the room isn't really dreadful with modal interference etc you should still be able to get great profiles. Alternatively, you could buy a really cheap DI Box like the ART Xdirect and make direct profiles to use with existing cabinets or IRs in the Kemper. In my experience this is the quickest and easiest way for me to reach a point of acceptable satisfaction. However, there is a MAJOR caveat with this - profiling itself can also become a massive rabbit hole unless you place restrictions on yourself.


    One other thing; you mentioned that you get a strange sound on open strings but not if you use a capo. That would suggest an issue with the guitar rather than the profiler.


    Good luck in your quest for the holy grail just try to make sure you don't get savaged by the Killer Rabbit of Caerbannog ;)

    Oh, and one other thought..........


    This issue isn't unique to profiler's and moddeler's. I am still a member of the Mesa Boogie facebook group. There seems to be a never ending series of posts about trying to chase the perfect tone from a Mkii+ or Rev F Dual Rec etc etc. It often gets to the stage of "i have tried X tubes in V1 slot and Y tubes in V2 and 3 plus I changed the speaker to something with an unobtinium magnet. That got me 99% of the way there but it wasn't until I switched to a special magic solid gold speaker jack connected with double oxygen free copper wire and a flux capacitor bridged across the output transformer that sound really came alive :)

    Quote from Audiopilot

    I love his AFD100 and I use the Marshall Silver Jubilee live.

    I will look into this. I love hearing Marshalls but playing them never satisfied me somehow. Thanks! :D

    Quote from Ibot39

    I do what I can do in a given time. Then I stop and have even more fun playing. If a problem still is very "disturbing" I write it down to come back a few weeks later, so I can forget about it now.

    This is what I do sometimes and what I will try to do more often now. I kinda needed everything very quickly back in the days but I now am able to be more patient and I'm working on improving that skill. 8) A few years ago I had to open new things right in the car after getting them or retrieving things from the post office to take a first look. Now sometimes a can leave a package untouched for even a few days. I'm gettin' old. :thumbup:

    Quote from SQUAREHEAD

    It’s very likely, many times, we have reached the best it will do, but with the simplicity of the old amplifiers it’s much easier just to stop Tweaking…

    That is totally true. With my TH30 Combo there wasn't even much possibility to shape tone. It sounded like it sounded (except for the very special tone shape thing on channel two. Cheers to you, Orange). Rest was guitar, pedals and maybe some EQing on the pedal board. Now ... You know.

    Quote from V8guitar

    2) an Amp on its own sounds different to when a band cranks up
    3) It takes time to get used to a sound, not 20 seconds..for me it takes months. Hence try to stick with a sound..
    4) I don't know what sounds good! Don;t get someone to play your gear because you can;t play but because you disassociate yourself from it. I guarantee it sounds different!

    I know, I know. But I need to like the amp at least a little even when not in context. But of course you are right. I promise I will now try and stick to a sound. Also because I learned that I don't always need to improve things. :thumbup:
    I know that this (your point 4) will always sound different especially when played by someone way more able to play than yourself. I got this buddy and whatever guitar, amp etc. he touches - it is magic. It sounds killer. Every time! If I take that stuff home it is ok, it sounds good but I'm not able to get that much out of it as he does. It's mostly his awesome chord noodling that sounds so special an so natural. I kinda also hate him for that ... 8)

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    Like 1
    Quote from Wheresthedug

    If it's any consolation, you are not alone!!!


    There is some great advice in this thread already. Here's my tuppenceworth:


    I also seriously considered the Helix but ended up going Kemper for the simple reasons that it felt more like my real amps "to me" AND I perceived it to have less tweakability so I was less likely to end up down the Rabbit Hole. The truth is they are both awesome units and I would probably have been equally happy/unhappy with either. As it turns out the Kemper is WAY more tweakable than I realised. However, I force myself to treat it like a real amp for the sake of my sanity

    After fiddling around with Helix Native and this thread I decided I don't need the Helix. It does things different, maybe also good and it doesn't sound too bad. I also totally like the editor. After a I dialed in a fine tone, I waited a day, I started to dial in something from scratch at my Kemper and to my mind it instantly sounded better. So no need for a Helix and I'm really happy right know.


    You guys helped me so much! :thumbup:

    Quote from Wheresthedug

    Good luck in your quest for the holy grail

    Yeah, thanks, mate! :D

    Quote from Wheresthedug

    This issue isn't unique to profiler's and moddeler's.

    That's so true. Before the Kemper it was modding my cheaper guitars and before playing guitar it was my home computers. It never ends.

    The Educated Apes: Facebook | Bandcamp


    Kemper-Wiki
    [email protected]


    Main Rig: KPA Power Toaster + Profiler Remote, 2x Palmer 112 Cab (1x Celestion V30, 1x Celestion CB NEO), ME EP1-KP-GN, Dunlop Cry Baby 95Q, Gibson Memphis ES-339 '16, Gibson Melody Maker '14, Fender Thinline Cabronita '12

    Like 1
    Quote from lacantina

    I see that you are playing a 2014 Gibson Melodymaker among others!?

    Right. But I'm not playing it right now. This is all about the ES-339. Guess what, I wanted to put P90s in the ES but now I'm not so sure. :D

    The Educated Apes: Facebook | Bandcamp


    Kemper-Wiki
    [email protected]


    Main Rig: KPA Power Toaster + Profiler Remote, 2x Palmer 112 Cab (1x Celestion V30, 1x Celestion CB NEO), ME EP1-KP-GN, Dunlop Cry Baby 95Q, Gibson Memphis ES-339 '16, Gibson Melody Maker '14, Fender Thinline Cabronita '12

    Quote from Wheresthedug

    One other thing; you mentioned that you get a strange sound on open strings but not if you use a capo. That would suggest an issue with the guitar rather than the profiler.

    The guitar is set up as good as it gets. I did the best I could and afterwards went to a trusted guitar builder who fine tuned everything again. However, I will go ahead and try a different bridge soon. But I know that there are people like the guys from Social Distortion that tune a full step down only to put a capo on the first. Which to my mind would be "the same" as if they just tuned a half step down (I play standard tuning). So maybe they also like the sound more when played with capo. It's not that there is something horribly wrong with my beloved ES-339, it's just a quiet brilliant ringing in the background that sometimes gets really disturbing and amplified when played slightly distorted with open chords.

    The Educated Apes: Facebook | Bandcamp


    Kemper-Wiki
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    Main Rig: KPA Power Toaster + Profiler Remote, 2x Palmer 112 Cab (1x Celestion V30, 1x Celestion CB NEO), ME EP1-KP-GN, Dunlop Cry Baby 95Q, Gibson Memphis ES-339 '16, Gibson Melody Maker '14, Fender Thinline Cabronita '12

    Quote from 10w73

    I know, I know. But I need to like the amp at least a little even when not in context. But of course you are right. I promise I will now try and stick to a sound. Also because I learned that I don't always need to improve things. :thumbup: I know that this (your point 4) will always sound different especially when played by someone way more able to play than yourself. I got this buddy and whatever guitar, amp etc. he touches - it is magic. It sounds killer. Every time! If I take that stuff home it is ok, it sounds good but I'm not able to get that much out of it as he does. It's mostly his awesome chord noodling that sounds so special an so natural. I kinda also hate him for that ... 8)

    I find everyone sounds better through my gear than I do....but think about this...I find other people think I sound pretty good as well...so I know a lot of it is in my head.


    So difficult and feel your pain...its really to let you know that this isn't that uncommon either.

    Quote from V8guitar

    I find everyone sounds better through my gear than I do....but think about this...I find other people think I sound pretty good as well...so I know a lot of it is in my head.
    So difficult and feel your pain...its really to let you know that this isn't that uncommon either.

    Even worse: Listening to the own voice on a recording X/:D

    I didn't see anyone else mention it (but scrolled past some posts), but since you specifically talked about hearing just "pick noises" after a while, I remembered that I've seen some Kemper tutorial video or something lately where I remember there was a setting on the Kemper that affects the presence of the picking sound. Like Pick Sens or something. That wasn't the name for it but maybe someone else knows what I'm talking about. Or maybe I dreamt this, lol.

    Quote from Preacher

    I didn't see anyone else mention it (but scrolled past some posts), but since you specifically talked about hearing just "pick noises" after a while, I remembered that I've seen some Kemper tutorial video or something lately where I remember there was a setting on the Kemper that affects the presence of the picking sound. Like Pick Sens or something. That wasn't the name for it but maybe someone else knows what I'm talking about. Or maybe I dreamt this, lol.

    That’s right. There’s the Pick parameter and sometimes it works really good and sometimes there’s something left.
    This parameter more or less takes some attack. Maybe like a compressor plus additional magic. But this of course only works till a certain point and taking away the attack also isn’t always wanted.


    But thank you, mate.


    You guys helped me so much in this thread! I can’t thank you enough. Few days ago I just quickly started from scratch with my kinda crunchy sound for open chords, kinda liked it, left it that way and I’m happy. However, I think about getting a new guitar, a Music Man Valentine with Tremolo 2018. That sucks because it is 2500 € and I don’t have that much. Always the need for something new, I know ... :thumbup:

    The Educated Apes: Facebook | Bandcamp


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    Main Rig: KPA Power Toaster + Profiler Remote, 2x Palmer 112 Cab (1x Celestion V30, 1x Celestion CB NEO), ME EP1-KP-GN, Dunlop Cry Baby 95Q, Gibson Memphis ES-339 '16, Gibson Melody Maker '14, Fender Thinline Cabronita '12

    Like 2


    I agree with these sentiments completely



    although I wouldn't be caught dead using an SM57 on anything <g>

    Quote from wwittman

    although I wouldn't be caught dead using an SM57 on anything <g>

    As I understand it you've earned the right to use whatever you want on what ever you want ;)


    Meanwhile, muppets like me will continue to use whatever we can get our hands on :)


    I am firmly of the opinion that the weakest point in any profiling or recording that I do is going to be my ears rather than the equipment.